From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: Episode by Episode
This week's episode is The Bringers of Wonder Part I. Discussion goes from Monday, October 5 to Sunday, October 11. It might be prudent to discuss part I and II over a two week period instead of breaking them up into two separate stories. Part II obviously takes place directly after the final scene (a cliffhanger) in Part I. Despite the weird Status Report date there is no gap between these episodes.
If you choose to do so then discussion will go from Monday, October 5 to Sunday, October 18.
We are in the home stretch of Episode by Episode...well, it was fun while it lasted.
Mateo
Editor's Notes: The discussion did intermix, but most notes were titled by part, and they are separate episodes (though part of the same story), so for these reasons, and sake of download length, I edited them into two separate webpages. Some mixing still occurs, however.
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:16:58 +0100 Subj: Space1999: The Bringers of Wonder
Hmm. Maybe the idea of having two weeks to discuss this is making everyone hold back?
I enjoyed this episode (all two parts of it), even though it is *tremendously* dated, even more so than the series in general. I loved the glimpses of the Alphans' backstories; it made them not only more human, but more believable as 20th century people hurled into space. The aliens were well done, imo, and their motives and behaviour comprehensible and well explained. I wonder how they managed to even create the illusion of trotting around Alpha considering how slowly they really moved, but that didn't particularly bother me. The scene at the end with Alan and the others trapped in the illusion was brilliantly done!
It also features at least one line that makes it worthy of a MiSTing (which I will spare you, btw):
TONY: "He's gonna crash. Alan, get over there. Take a couple of nuclear physicists with you, just in case."
ROFL! Glad to know they have nuclear physicists loafing around 'just in case' on Alpha! :))
I don't have time to expand on the subject right now, but I thought I'd at least set the ball rolling. More on it later, no doubt...
Emma
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:39:44 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Re: Space1999: The Bringers of Wonder
My "nit" to pick with this episode is when Maya is treated by the Ellendorf Quadrographic Brain Unit and they begin to believe Koenig. At some point they look at video of the Eagle landing near the waste domes. Helena says, "I still see the pilot ship." SO WHAT? They could show people that tape and win them over! What the heck is the pilot ship doing near the waste domes anyway? It would have been better if she saw the domes ONLY!
I, too, like this episode. And the idea of a completely full life in accelerated experience under the aliens' control is fascinating. I also think that, apart from the big, obviously plastic, eyes, the aliens were probably some of the best I have ever seen on TV. Big lumbering mounds of protoplasmic jelly. Yup--well realized!
Mateo
From: Brian Dowling (hellion@easy44net.co.uk) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:19:28 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Bringers of Wonder
The obvious dating thing aside, the story as a whole works well and it's just a pity that the expansion of the Alphans' backgrounds was so late in coming.
It also features at least one line that makes it worthy of a MiSTing (which I will spare you, btw):
You might, but I might not...
TONY: "He's gonna crash. Alan, get over there. Take a couple of nuclear physicists with you, just in case."
Surely the worst dialog in the whole 48 episodes of the show. I mean, the whole thing happens just at the same time as a couple of nuclear physicists think "By 'eck I'm bored! Think I'll wander into Command Center to see what's going on...". That's as bad (if not worse) than talking trees who call berry eating bipeds cannibals.
Brian Dowling
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:06:47 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Bringers of Wonder
BRINGERS OF WONDER is also an episode I like, even though I understand Terrence Feely was very unhappy with what Freiberger did to his original script. I think the original idea of the aliens taking control over the minds of the Alphans is such a witty one, not unlike the 1977 remake of the classic INVATION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS (1956) with its comments on contemporary consumer society.
I'm still reading John Fowles' THE MAGUS (1965), and feel that the Fowles type of themes so prominent in Feely's previous work for SPACE:1999, NEW ADAM/NEW EVE, is also in well focus in this episode.
To me THE BRINGER OF WONDER and NEW ADAM/NEW EVE seem to hit some of the same strings as the di Lorenzo classics RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK in that it questions the search for knowledge as the essence of existance, the very idea of European identity according to people like Milan Kundera.
While Feely is not as abstract as di Lorenzo, I feel, he is nevertheless more abstract than Johnny Byrne, whose philosophy of the early seventies manage to make SPACE:1999 into a hybrid of 2001: A SPACE ODDYSEY and EASY RIDER by advocating a sort of ecological hippie philosophy as a basis for pivot episodes like ANOTHER TIME/ANOTHER PLACE and THE TESTAMENT OF ARKADIA.
There is very little of this "back to nature" aspect in the writing of Feely for SPACE:1999, I feel, as he even makes comments on the existence of God in an episode like NEW ADAM/NEW EVE where Johnny Byrne quite contrary use the divine aspect as a vital clue in how the Alphans understand themselves.
Although Christopher Penfold also uses religious metaphores and images in a manner not unlike Byrne, I, however, get the impression that Feely and Penfold are closer in spirit than Feely and Byrne, at least in type of social critisism that was produced with SPACE:1999.
Where Feely digs deeper, in my opinion, than both Byrne and Penfold, is with the central maxime of the episode about it's being better to live in reality than being a fool in somebody elses world, the message that comes more to the forefront in part 2 of the episode.
Here I feel Terrence Feely comes very close to the John Fowles sort of writing about trying to behave with some kind of dignity in an absurd world. Even if the message may be read as fairly blunt, as of wakening up, we are all responsible of the wellfare of the earth, it does not help to hide in the world of culture (Beethoven), sports (Golf) or pure family joy, I still think Feely reaches beyond the comments on the eco-crisis that was gradually becomming apparent by the early seventies.
For me BRINGERS OF WONDER generates wider implications about isolation and community in the sense that is so splendidly illustrated in RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK. In RING AROUND THE MOON we were told that Alpha was encapsulated by some entity whose existance relied solely on its ability to collection and store information. The threat was absolved when the entity realised the meaninglessness of its own situation which again sent metaphysical vibration down the spine of Alpha by having Victor Bergman ponder over his own credo of knowledge be the only answer.
In MISSING LINK di Lorenzo investigated the matter further, I believe, by having the Alphans have a metaphysical encounter by someone or something that is, just like the Tritons, on an intellectually more advanced level than the humans, but have no deeper understanding of the mysteries of the world. In fact, in the TEMPEST-like MISSING LINK the conclusion is less vague than in RING AROUND THE MOON with its question concerning the meaning of search for knowledge as it more positively suggests a partial answer in terms of balance between intellect and emotions.
Personally I feel the consequences of Feely's play are somewhat similar. While everybody in MISSING LINK from Koenig to Helena and Alan are battling intellect versus emotions, the battle in BRINGERS OF WONDER is between the illusion of happiness versus the realistic approach to life with all its ugliness. In some ways a theme that is not too unlike the basic premises of GUARDIAN OF PIRI either.
Well, more on the episode later. This is one that I like quite much.
Petter
Y'know, this story was just a variation of an old Doctor Who episode, *with the same monsters* even.
Fortunately, I didn't know that at the time. I just loved the suspenseful cliffhanger between episodes. It was truly amazing.
Take care,
Chris
As far as I remember, there we see the best J&H kiss in the whole series(Y1&Y2). I just loved that. Can't remember a better one... Can you???
IMHO, the kiss was the best thing in that double-ep. I'm a ML Aficinado(a);) {BBI member, too, for that matter} ... but he did over-act (or over-reacted-?-)...too much terror...too much fear...and the monsters!?!
Oh, PLEEEASE!! LOL!
Monica
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:14:38 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder - Latin Blood :D
As far as I remember, there we see the best J&H kiss in the whole series(Y1&Y2). I just loved that. Can't remember a better one... Can you???
Personally I liked the more underplayed relationship between John and Helena in episodes like BREAKAWAY, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, BLACK SUN, RING AROUND THE MOON, MISSING LINK etc.
It is interesting, though, that the sequence that Monica mentions was also shown in the SPACE:1999 DOCUMENTARY as an example of how the characters and their relationships had changed by the second season.
I would not be very much surprised if it turned out that this scene was something Freiberger had personally added to the Terence Feely script. Under any circumstances it seems worlds apart from the way romantic relationships were displayed in Feely's first contribution to the series, NEW ADAM/NEW EVE, which he apparently was more happy with.
IMHO, the kiss was the best thing in that double-ep. I'm a ML Aficinado(a);) {BBI member, too, for that matter} ... but he did over-act (or over-reacted-?-)...too much terror...too much fear...and the monsters!?!
My preferences in style of acting is definitely in the direction of Year One. In Year One I was impressed by Martin Landau complex characterisation for also all of the episodes, often feeling that he added much to the series by making Koenig more complex than he was actually written.
For me Year Two is almost the complete oposite, Landau cutting down on the complexities in order to create a character more suited for the general style of the show at this instant.
His best performance, in my opinion, was perhaps when he displayed the darker and destructive sides of Koenig in SEEDS OF DESTRUCTION, the best portrait of the Year Two Koenig the way I see it. In BRINGERS OF WONDER I'm not quite sure what he tries to add to his character. To me Koenig comes across as a rather confused character, not too much unlike COLLISION COURSE, but without the psychological backing of supporting characters as in the classic Year One episode.
What surprises me the most in BRINGERS OF WONDER is how he manages so easily to convince the other Alphans that his perspective is the real one. While this type of conflict was the focal point in episodes like COLLISION COURSE and GUARDIAN OF PIRI, Freiberger and Clegg obviously don't want to ponder too much over this.
It would have been interesting to hear more in detail what Feely thought of this adaption of his work. Any comments, Simon?
Petter
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:18:50 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder - Latin Blood :D
As far as I remember, there we see the best J&H kiss in the whole series(Y1&Y2). I just loved that. Can't remember a better one... Can you???
The kiss in "Journey to Where" was pretty effective, too, imho. And having just watched it, I noticed that in "War Games", John was kissing Helena's hair at the end of the episode, when they're in the ruins of that place. It was a lot more subtle, but little touches like that are what makes a relationship more realistic.
Talking about realism -- inasmuch as that applies to the series at all ;) -- the thing I liked most about BoW was the background the Alphans were given. Tony in particular benefitted from this; we learn more about his family and his relationship with his brother and his mother, which is oodles more than we learned about anyone else in the course of the series (the whole of Alpha appears to be populated by orphaned only children in most episodes <g>). Okay, so the Italianness is a stereotype, and I guess the aliens made Tony forget that most of Europe should be under the sea after the Moon left orbit, but I still enjoyed this bit because it makes the characters more realistic. The same, of course, applies to the glimpses of the pasts of Helena, Ben, Sandra and those nuclear physicists who hang out in Command Center "just in case".
Schell, as usual, was excellent as a less than enthusiastic Maya. It's obvious that the Psychon gets worried whenever her Alphan colleagues seem on the point of returning to Earth (as was already discussed for Journey to Where). And well she might; the Alphans' attitude towards her is tempered by their experiences in space (and even then, as we'll see in the Dorcons, that attitude varies greatly), but the humans on Earth would most likely want to cut her up or stick her in a zoo (I can just imagine Tony's reaction). Besides, she's already the only one of her species among a population of 200/300, but on Earth, she'd be alone among *billions* of humans -- enough to give any alien nightmares, I should think.
On this topic, I've been wondering how the Alphans -- and Tony in particular -- would react if faced with the reverse situation. What if, wandering through the universe, the Moon happened to stumble across a large Psychon colony, perhaps founded by Maya's brother? How would the humans feel about being invited to live among a population of Psychons? How long would it be before there was an all-out war between the two? More fodder for speculation and fanfiction, I guess.
Having mentioned both Maya and Tony, of course, I feel the need to bring back the conversation onto my favourite couple. I'd say it's a good sign that Tony notices Maya's reluctance and tries to do something about it -- assuming a snog in Command Center would actually solve anything. <g> OTOH, introducing Maya as "the last of her species" was a tad tactless...
While we're on the subject of romance (or while *I'm* on the subject...), I've been wondering if there are any interesting fanzines out there? I've read all the online stuff I could get my hands on, but I get the feeling I'm missing something (stories about Maya and Tony, presumably :). Any suggestions?
Emma
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:18:02 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder - Latin Blood :D
Emma wrote:
The kiss in "Journey to Where" was pretty effective, too, imho. And having just watched it, I noticed that in "War Games", John was kissing Helena's hair at the end of the episode, when they're in the ruins of that place. It was a lot more subtle, but little touches like that are what makes a relationship more realistic.
I'm definitaly more in favour of the WAR GAMES display of romantic relationships. Another episode that was rather charming in the description of the John/Helena relationship was THE LAST ENEMY, I think. The end of that episode is certainly revealing, but the episode could have been much, much better, I believe, if they had dared to stick to Barbara Bain and Bob Kellett's original intentions and not watering the whole thing down.
Nevertheless, it is still fun to watch THE LAST ENEMY and thing about how Bergman, Helena and the others were originally intended to be.
Talking about realism -- inasmuch as that applies to the series at all ;) -- the thing I liked most about BoW was the background the Alphans were given. Tony in particular benefitted from this; we learn more about his family and his relationship with his brother and his mother, which is oodles more than we learned about anyone else in the course of the series (the whole of Alpha appears to be populated by orphaned only children in most episodes <g>).
Well, I agree to a certain point about this, but, as you state otherwhere, Emma, his character is a stereotype and all the information we are given only helps to build up under that stereotype. The family background etc. doesn't seem to help understanding the Tony Verdeschi character any more, I think.
I don't if it is strictly comparable with the portraits of John and Maya in RULES OF LUTON, the background material there seemed to give more information on Fred Freiberger's background than to have anything at all to do with the characters, I feel.
Nevertheless, giving us the possibility to speculate if Freiberger was actually thinking of himself when he was discussing Maya's brother and so on, the background given about Tony in BRINGERS OF WONDER does not seem to give any kind of information whatever, I feel, well hardly any.
One of the best episodes, however, in using background information in order to bring out character was, in my opinion, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. In this one Byrne and Wallace used Helena's previous marriage as a focal point of the plot, a point which made very much sense in helping us understand her character.
The best introduction, as far as I can see, was in BREAKAWAY, the pilot for the series, where at least John and Helena are given a fair amount of background. Well, at least we are being told enough in order to understand to a certain extent how and why they behave the way they do.
One of the weaker points of SPACE:1999, a point that Barry Morse has stated on several occations I believe, is that Victor Bergman is so blurred. Not very much is known about him in BREAKAWAY and not much more in MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. Barry More was more happy with BLACK SUN, I believe, but although he is given the opportunity to show some of the more complex psychological aspects of Victor, just like in subsequent episode RING AROUND THE MOON, we are still not being told very much about the physical and non-physical obstacles that have formed his personality.
Schell, as usual, was excellent as a less than enthusiastic Maya. It's obvious that the Psychon gets worried whenever her Alphan colleagues seem on the point of returning to Earth (as was already discussed for Journey to Where).
This is not all bad, I agree. Perhaps something that survived from Terence Feely's original script.
Petter
From: Robert Gilbert (bcpgd@shaw.wave4tag.ca) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:52:22 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder - Latin Blood :D
I've been wondering if there are any interesting fanzines out there? I've read all the online stuff I could get my hands on, but I get the feeling I'm missing something (stories about Maya and Tony, presumably :). Any suggestions?
Did they ever go off together in an Eagle away from the base just the two of them?
From: Brian Dowling (hellion@easy44net.co.uk) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:23:14 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder - Latin Blood :D
Seed Of Destruction, but that was to rescue John.
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:01:55 +0100 Subj: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Hello folks
My opinion of this one is the same as when I first saw it all those years ago: that its one of the best stories of either season. A mixture of Y2 action and bombast plus nice character work and some excellent writing(plus a couple of dumb lines..)
An intriguing opening which maintains the interest right from the start of the episode...and one which starts so suddenly with no explanation at first as to what has led to Koenig careening around in an Eagle. Has Koenig finally lost his marbles,we wonder? I have to agree though with those on the List who find it amusing that there just happen to be a couple of nuclear physicists loafing around in Command Center at this time. After all,we've never seen them before-and we don't see them again after this episode!
As someone who works in the Ambulance Service I do have a problem with the injuries that Koenig supposedly received ("Your skull took quite a banging.."). It was a hell of a crash,and bearing in mind that the impact would have caused multiple injuries even if he was strapped in to his seat,he is remarkably untouched by the crash. I mean,there he is suffering from concussion(at the very least)and there isn't a mark on him....if *I* went to people in that condition at high impact road traffic accidents my job would be a lot easier.... No folks I'm sorry but Koenig's injuries in this case were not believable,at least to me.
The sequences where the aliens,in their human form,and the Alphans meet are quite interesting for the character interaction and the back story given to some characters(eg Helena/Dr Shaw and Sandra and Peter). Its a pity that there wasn't more of this in both Y1 and Y2. The only thing was,that I started to wonder: why have we never heard of Dr Shaw or Peter before?. We had a couple of confused glimpses of Sandra's convoluted love interest in Y1 and Peter was never mentioned. As Dr Shaw had a profound influence on Helena,wouldn't he have been mentioned earlier in Y2 if nowhere else? I know I'm a major supporter of the theory that Y1 and Y2 should be treated as separate series(and even universes)to avoid ulcers in comparing the two seasons-but in this case I have to say I was mildly irritated by the lack of continuity. Nitpicking I know...but there you have it. Thats what I felt.
Good interaction between the characters(Tony and Guido/Diana Morris and Helena),who come across as warm and genuine human beings(ironic really that half of them are aliens in disguise!). Cher Cameron as Louisa is very easy on the eye(mmm-mmm...)but she went to the same acting school as Yasuko Nagazumi IMO,i.e. "The Piss-Poor Acting Method". When she is quizzed by Carter as to if she's somebody's mother/grandmother etc I just thought: God she's crap. And did anyone else notice how long her eyelashes were? Clearly her duties on the Superswift were to act as the windscreen wipers....
Toby Robins on the other hand did an amusing turn as the vampish Diana Morris,with acting that was so over the top she was in orbit! The hammy nature of her performance actually enhanced the catty dialogue between her and Helena(originally Feely wrote a lot more insult-swapping between the two..)and injected an element of character realism into the script. Friendly rivalry between brothers(from personal experience I identified with this) and catty rivalry between women is something we'd never seen before-though they are such human traits. And of course Toby Robins provides some of the most amazing cleavage seen in the series......
Mmmmm......What? Oh yes,and apart from the cleavage I have a feeling that Robins may have been dubbed into that phoney accent by someone else(or she redubbed it herself). Drewe Henleys accent was bloody irritating too. Can our American List friends spot a phony US accent and does it irritate them as much as when we Brits spot a phony British accent from an American actor??
Just a note here to say that I liked the propulsive piece of music that accompanied the fight between Sandstrom and Ben Vincent. A sort of melding of brass/electronics and rhythm section,I don't think this particular piece ever popped up again in any other episode of Y2. Nice little bit of work from Derek Wadsworth again.
Amusing sequence when Maya shows her jealousy and anger with Diana by turning into yet another space frog(and once again Albin Pahernik stays off the unemployed actors queue for the day..!)
Speaking of ludicrous monsters,I have to commit heresy at this point and say that I always thought the monsters in this episode were way-over-the -top,and actually spoiled some of the episode. I'm well aware that designer Keith Wilson thought they were amongst the best work he'd done. I also acknowledge that visually and technically they were impressive. But to me they were too comic book(novelist Michael Butterworth actually reffered to them as Jelly Beings in his adaptation of the script!)in their looks and to some extent this undermined the episode.I know that there needed to be a complete contrast between the aliens in human guise and the way they looked in their true form,but walking lumps of jelly and blancmange jsut did not do it for me.
Good cinematography/direction as the camera tracks Vincent and his stretcher team as they rush down the corridor and to the Records lab which Kander is tearing up. The camera swiftly follows Vincent directly into and among the group of people watching at the window,and the camera seems to be hand-held at this point as it gets right into the heart of the activity. I see echoes of documentary-type filming here which lends a gritty,realistic air to the action. I'd liked to have seen more of this on the series. The scenes where Kander is burnt to death are quite strong stuff really and I'd be interested to see if there isn't some trimming here when the BBC come to screen the episode next year(if its still in its 6:25 pm slot).
There is a little bit of padding in some parts,it seems to me. The sequence where Sandstrom is revived to attack Verdeschi seems nothing more than a gratuitous opportunity to have Maya transform into a Kendo stick-fighter(no role for Albin here. He wouldn't have been tall enough....) It doesnt add anything to the story-or to the threat the aliens pose-so why include it?
The cliffhanger at the end of part 1 is an effective one. Will Koenig get the life squeezed out of him by that awful looking quivering glob? Or will Dr Shaw intervene and rescue Koenig from Helena's clutches before its too late?? (Only kidding......)
end of part one!!
Simon
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:57:45 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Simon Morris wrote:
My opinion of this one is the same as when I first saw it all those years ago: that its one of the best stories of either season. A mixture of Y2 action and bombast plus nice character work and some excellent writing(plus a couple of dumb lines..)
One man's meat, another man's poison, as Simon often puts it. Not one of the worst episodes, I would say, but, nevertheless, putting it among the best stories of either season is far from how I see it. I agree with Simon's point on writing, however, although I find it hard to see how the character work can even compete with episodes of Year One that were slightly below par, such as FULL CIRCLE. Well, different tastes, I suppose.
Good interaction between the characters(Tony and Guido/Diana Morris and Helena),who come across as warm and genuine human beings(ironic really that half of them are aliens in disguise!).
This works surprisingly well, I agree. It is pure soap opera, of course, but, nevertheless, it helps putting things into perspective and get a glimpse of Alpha from a greater context.
As Simon is fond of stating, Year One and Year Two are not even just two series, they are close to existing side by side in two different universes. The supporting characters representing former life on Earth helps establish this in BRINGER OF WONDER, I feel, pure Year Two stuff and definitely not the type of people we would meet in Year One.
Nevertheless, it works well in order to establish more environment for Year Two I think.
Toby Robins on the other hand did an amusing turn as the vampish Diana Morris,with acting that was so over the top she was in orbit! The hammy nature of her performance actually enhanced the catty dialogue between her and Helena(originally Feely wrote a lot more insult-swapping between the two..)and injected an element of character realism into the script.
You have read the original script? Lucky you!
I rather enjoyed the confrontation between Helena and Diana. Toby Robins gives a sort of Joan "Alexis" Collins flair to it, I think, and even if it is hammy, I enjoyed it. Come to think of it, it is rather difficult to find something in Year Two that wasn't hammy or over the top, now was there?
Can our American List friends spot a phony US accent and does it irritate them as much as when we Brits spot a phony British accent from an American actor??
I wish they had tried to do more Norwegian accents. Not very much of that, is there. :-)
Amusing sequence when Maya shows her jealousy and anger with Diana by turning into yet another space frog(and once again Albin Pahernik stays off the unemployed actors queue for the day..!)
Totally ridiculous!
I wonder were Fred Freiberger got his ideas. At least this could certainly have anything to do with Feely's original script, now could it?
way they looked in their true form,but walking lumps of jelly and blancmange jsut did not do it for me.
Jelly and blancmange, that's it! Anyone remember an episode of MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS when the Earth was attacked by blancmange creatures from outer space motivated by a develish plan of winning the Wimbledon?
Good cinematography/direction as the camera tracks Vincent and his stretcher team as they rush down the corridor and to the Records lab which Kander is tearing up. The camera swiftly follows Vincent directly into and among the group of people watching at the window,and the camera seems to be hand-held at this point as it gets right into the heart of the activity. I see echoes of documentary-type filming here which lends a gritty,realistic air to the action. I'd liked to have seen more of this on the series.
Nice directon and photography for much of the episode, I agree, with some of it even seeming fairly realistic. However, if we compare with how Ray Austin approach for sadistic realism in episodes like END OF ETERNITY (Koenig being attacked by model aeroplane) and MISSION OF THE DARIANS (destruction of the misfits), BRINGER OF WONDER does not look all that impressive. Nevertheless, not bad.
gratuitous opportunity to have Maya transform into a Kendo stick-fighter(no role for Albin here. He wouldn't have been tall enough....) It doesnt add anything to the story-or to the threat the aliens pose-so why include it?
Fred Freiberger "improving" on the original script again?
With his expoert knowledge of the genre and how the American TV network was supposed to work, I would not be surprised if he had tables of averages and standard deviations for the length of time between fights, romance and so on. Or was he just using his talent? :-)
The cliffhanger at the end of part 1 is an effective one. Will Koenig get the life squeezed out of him by that awful looking quivering glob? Or will Dr Shaw intervene and rescue Koenig from Helena's clutches before its too late?? (Only kidding......)
Heh heh.
Wonderful sense of irony, Simon. Wonderful analysis of part one.
Petter
From: Robert Gilbert (bcpgd@shaw.wave4tag.ca) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:24:54 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
As someone who works in the Ambulance Service I do have a problem with the injuries that Koenig supposedly received ("Your skull took quite a banging.."). It was a hell of a crash,and bearing in mind that the impact
Against what? The vast array of items in the Eagle Cockpit? I'm Sorry but there was nothing to hit (if he was correctl;y strapped in)!
job would be a lot easier.... No folks I'm sorry but Koenig's injuries in this case were not believable,at least to me.
Don't get me wrong! I am brain injured myself (the Story of my Accident exists on my WWWeb site: http://www.cal.shaw.wave.ca/~bcpgd/ so I know just how brain injuries are acquired!
Can our American List friends spot a phony US accent and does it irritate them as much as when we Brits spot a phony British accent from an American actor??
I didn't notice said accent, but usually have a habit of missing things! Next time I watch the Ep I'll pay attention to the Lady with Cleavage!
Amusing sequence when Maya shows her jealousy and anger with Diana by turning into yet another space frog(and once again Albin Pahernik stays off the unemployed actors queue for the day..!)
Yes! Exactly! I *LOVE* the look Tony gives Maya (er, creature)!
way they looked in their true form,but walking lumps of jelly and blancmange jsut did not do it for me.
What about the Speed of Motion? The creatures moved a *LOT* slower than the Human Actors!
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:36:06 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Petter wrote:
I find it hard to see how the character work can even compete with episodes of Year One that were slightly below par, such as FULL CIRCLE.
I don't see that there was much characterisation in FULL CIRCLE. A hint of relationship between Sandra and Alan? What else was there?
This works surprisingly well, I agree. It is pure soap opera, of course, but, nevertheless, it helps putting things into perspective and get a glimpse of Alpha from a greater context.
You're referring here to the bitchiness between Diana and Helena and,I suppose,the playful rivalry between Tony and Guido. Well maybe it is soap opera Petter,but it also reflects real life,and if you can't see that then you must lead a sheltered life!
As Simon is fond of stating, Year One and Year Two are not even just two series, they are close to existing side by side in two different universes. The supporting characters representing former life on Earth helps establish this in BRINGER OF WONDER, I feel, pure Year Two stuff and definitely not the type of people we would meet in Year One.
Why wouldn't they be the sort of people we would meet in Year One? If you are saying that this sort of story wouldnt have been done in Y1 you're probably right,but why wouldn't these sort of people be featured? You're in danger of sounding a bit of a snob Petter :-)
I rather enjoyed the confrontation between Helena and Diana. Toby Robins gives a sort of Joan "Alexis" Collins flair to it, I think, and even if it is hammy, I enjoyed it. Come to think of it, it is rather difficult to find something in Year Two that wasn't hammy or over the top, now was there?
Yes. I suppose there is something of a Joan Collins feel to Toby Robins. I don't especially agree with the second part of your comments Petter. I know you don't like Y2 and I respect that point of view but don't keep hitting me over the head with it <grin>
I wish they had tried to do more Norwegian accents. Not very much of that, is there. :-)
Thank God! (Just kidding)
I wonder were Fred Freiberger got his ideas. At least this could certainly have anything to do with Feely's original script, now could it?
I'm pretty sure this was nothing to do with Freiberger. If anything carried his stamp,it was the crappy epilogue. I think you are sometimes too keen to dump the blame on Freiberger for some of the stuff you don't like. When Freiberger was quoted as saying he had something in mind to bring "wonder" into SPACE 1999(as he told Johnny Byrne) I don't think this meant he was working on a specific script idea,merely that "wonder" was his general intention. Feely's script was originally entitled "The Globs" and he was asked to extend it to feature length because they liked it. What Feely didn't like was the heavy editing that was done after he had delivered the script and gone on holiday. When he saw it he approached Gerry Anderson who pleaded that there was nothing he could have done. In interviews Feely expresses some irritation that Anderson was there but didn't intervene. Feely believed a lot of good stuff was cut from the script. I suspect that Freiberger's main contribution was to change the title to BRINGERS OF WONDER. Really Petter,I thats all there was to it. I don't believe it was a Freiberger idea. He thought up a title which summed up what he thought was his approach to the series.
Nice directon and photography for much of the episode, I agree, with some of it even seeming fairly realistic. However, if we compare with how Ray Austin approach for sadistic realism in episodes like END OF ETERNITY (Koenig being attacked by model aeroplane) and MISSION OF THE DARIANS (destruction of the misfits), BRINGER OF WONDER does not look all that impressive. Nevertheless, not bad.
I'm afraid I never really saw anything deep or impressive in Austins work. To me he was a stuntman-turned director who did competent directing jobs on a number of British action series.
With his expoert knowledge of the genre and how the American TV network was supposed to work, I would not be surprised if he had tables of averages and standard deviations for the length of time between fights, romance and so on. Or was he just using his talent? :-)
Again Petter,you are portraying Freiberger as the the 'real' author of the episode which isn't true. I don't believe he had tables of averages and standards,but if you are saying there was an element of formula tv in the Y2 format then i think you're right. And it was also in Y1 and in just about every sci fi programme I have ever seen!
Wonderful sense of irony, Simon. Wonderful analysis of part one.
Thanks Petter. I have to say I enjoy our disagreements and respect your views as I know you also respect mine!
Simon
From: David Acheson (dkach@hot44mail.com) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:24:44 EDT Subj: Space1999: The Bringers of Diana Morris
During the discussions for THE BRINGERS OF WONDER, someone mentioned the accent of Toby Robins who played the over-the-top man chaser Diana Morris. (All this even before Joan Collins played on DYNASTY! Imagine!)
Does anyone know much about her? I know she did some early Canadian TV including a short stint as a panelist on a CBC show - I can't remember if it was FRONT PAGE CHALLENGE or not. I will have to go back and investigate that one. I haven't seen her in anything other than 1999. I had always assumed she was Canadian but I am not sure as Barry Morse, who is definitely British, was also a pioneer of early Canadian television. I haven't found much at all on the internet . I believe she died a while back though.
Just curious.
David Acheson
From: StarParty@aol4tag.com Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:32:53 EDT Subj: Space1999: About Toby Robins
David was asking about actress Toby Robins, who played a large part in early Canadian television. As many of you know, Robert Wood and I are working on a book with Barry Morse and he mentioned her recently. Barry and Toby worked together in a number of productions on radio, television, and on the stage (in Canada and New York). Toby really made her mark on the stage, particularly in the spectaculary successful "Salad Days" in the late 1950s, which played in Canada then went to Broadway for a run. This show also starred Barry Morse and John Drainie, among others.
Toby had roles in a number of films, including "For Your Eyes Only" and the mini-series "Princess Daisy." Barry Morse holds her in quite high regard, both as a preeminent beauty of her day and a fine actress. It is my understanding that Toby was Canadian (although I could be mistaken), however, she did work in England from time to time. Her television guesting roles include "The Saint" and "Space:1999." Toby Robins passed away in 1986.
Thanks,
Anthony Wynn
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:02:39 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
I don't see that there was much characterisation in FULL CIRCLE. A hint of relationship between Sandra and Alan? What else was there?
Looking at episodes like VOYAGER'S RETURN, BLACK SUN, THE LAST SUNSET and so on, I always get the impression that these are *real* people living in a slightly absurd world of the moon running at random through the Universe.
In the later episodes of Year One, perhaps beginning with DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION, the 14th episode in the series, realistic elements were replaced by theatrical ones. FULL CIRCLE is typical of this, I feel, but still there is a slight feel that we still have to do with real people, not cartoon characters as in Year Two. This is the way I see it anyway.
You're referring here to the bitchiness between Diana and Helena and,I suppose,the playful rivalry between Tony and Guido. Well maybe it is soap opera Petter,but it also reflects real life,and if you can't see that then you must lead a sheltered life!
Well, I don't argue that soap operas are basically unrealistic. As far as I'm concerned they may be very realistic in their portrayals of trivial life indeed. It is the trivial part that I don't find all that attractive.
In BRINGERS OF WONDER there does not seem to be all that much insight given by people acting like stereotypes in a cocktail party. As Emma pointed out, Tony does not seem any less stereotypical Italian or American-Italian with the additional information given in this episode.
Now, if we compare with how this kind of thing was done in Year One, take MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH where Helena encountered her deceased husband or VOYAGER'S RETURN where Victor meets a fellow scientist ridden with guilt, it is strikingly how much a deeper perspective we get on the main characters. These are incidents and exploited relationships that make the actors bring out new and interesting aspects of their characters.
In BRINGERS OF WONDER or Year Two in general for that sake I feel there very little if anything at all of this. The reason, the way I see it, is because there are no characters in Year Two, only paper cut-outs.
Well, having said that, I admit, however, that even paper cut-outs can be fun to watch at times. If the Year One characters are of almost Ibsen type, then the Year Two characters could perhaps be better compared with Mozart opera characters if the Hanna Barbera comparison is beginning to get a little weary.
Why wouldn't they be the sort of people we would meet in Year One? If you are saying that this sort of story wouldnt have been done in Y1 you're probably right,but why wouldn't these sort of people be featured? You're in danger of sounding a bit of a snob Petter :-)
I suppose the friends and relatives of the Alphans in Year Two were as different from the friends and relatives in Year One as the Alphans differed in the two series. Two different Universes, not wanting to imply anything more than that really.
Yes. I suppose there is something of a Joan Collins feel to Toby Robins. I don't especially agree with the second part of your comments Petter. I know you don't like Y2 and I respect that point of view but don't keep hitting me over the head with it <grin>
Sorry. When you commented on Toby Robins being hammy, I just felt that she was probably a requirement for the part, and, in fact, I do feel Year Two is rather camp and hammy, but still enjoy it though.
[snip part about Norwegian accents, which led to this:]
What about Liv Ullman as Dr Helena Russell in a future movie version of SPACE:1999? If we only could get Max von Sydow as Koenig, Erling Josephson as Victor and Ingmar Bergman to direct it. Now, what do you think about that!?
And otherwise have everybody on Alpha speaking English with Nordic accents... Wonderful, don't you think!?
I'm pretty sure this was nothing to do with Freiberger. If anything carried his stamp,it was the crappy epilogue. I think you are sometimes too keen to dump the blame on Freiberger for some of the stuff you don't like.
Yes, I know. Nasty habit. :-)
Seriously, you are probably right. While I respect Freiberger as a producer and understand that what he was doing was the way things were professionally done in America in the 1970, in SPACE:1999 and, seemingly, in other circles as well, Freiberger has become, a bit unjustly perhaps, more or less an official scapegoat. You know, when both Johnny Byrne, Gerry Anderson and others who were the actual brains and hearts of SPACE:1999 say the things they do, often in less sarcastic manner however, it is easy to get enthusiastic.
Nevertheless, basically I agree with you on not over-doing the Freddie- bashing, Simon. In fact, I've seriously tried to find redeeming qualities of his work for SPACE:1999, looking at RULES OF LUTON, BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP in particular, but, unfortunately, I don't think there is very much of value in those episodes except perhaps a glimpse into the world of survival as a scriptwriter and producer of juvenile light entertainment romance and action series on the American TV-network in the mid 1970s.
Well, thanks for you sharing your insights, Simon. BRINGERS OF WONDER was a better title that "The Globs", I think, unless Globs is a subtle wordplay on something like the globe or globe-trotters having to do with the eco-political theme of the episode. BRINGERS OF WONDER is a good title, I think.
I'm afraid I never really saw anything deep or impressive in Austins work. To me he was a stuntman-turned director who did competent directing jobs on a number of British action series.
Perhaps having something to do with his stuntman background, the Austin type of direction, with lots of movement, fast editing, subjective camera, extremely well report with the actors and so on, is outstanding from my point of view. In terms of SPACE:1999 directors Ray Austin ranks very highly in my book.
Again Petter,you are portraying Freiberger as the the 'real' author of the episode which isn't true. I don't believe he had tables of averages and standards,but if you are saying there was an element of formula tv in the Y2 format then i think you're right. And it was also in Y1 and in just about every sci fi programme I have ever seen!
Actually I wasn't thinking of Freiberger as the 'real' author, only as the author of the less fascinating parts of the episode. I'm probably wrong, but to me Freiberger seems to symbolise everything that was typically Year Two, such as Maya, much of the BETA CLOUD feel that intervened in this episode just like in other episodes like CATACOMBS OF THE MOON and AB CHRYSALIS that would, I believe, have been better without such influence.
Thanks Petter. I have to say I enjoy our disagreements and respect your views as I know you also respect mine!
I always enjoy discussing with you, and I find you have an enormous insight into SPACE:1999, although you sometimes see it differently than I. That there are different opinions on this list only helps it alive and healthy, I believe.
Petter
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:49:45 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
In BRINGERS OF WONDER there does not seem to be all that much insight given by people acting like stereotypes in a cocktail party. As Emma pointed out, Tony does not seem any less stereotypical Italian or American-Italian with the additional information given in this episode.
Um, just a minute here, let's not put words into Emma's mouth. <g> What I meant was that, in the particular scene where Tony and Guido are discussing the mountain of pasta, the cultural background given was stereotypical. I did not mean for one minute that Tony himself was a stereotype.
On the contrary, he's a lot more rounded than your run-of-the-mill Itie in Anglo-American productions -- he's not cowardly, he's not flirting with every single woman who comes his way, he doesn't come from a large, expansive family in Naples, and, barring Feely's contributions which invariably mention pasta, he doesn't perpetually talk about food. And he does not speak with a ridiculous Italian accent, or shout "Mamma Mia" at every occasion. In fact, I've seen Tony Anholt himself portray far worse. :)
If you want a stereotype, what about Ernst Queller, since you mentioned him, the typical Mad German Scientist of so many B-movies? He got a heroic redemption, but why did he have to be German? Are no other nations on Earth capable of producing destructive inventions in the name of progress?
In BRINGERS OF WONDER or Year Two in general for that sake I feel there very little if anything at all of this. The reason, the way I see it, is because there are no characters in Year Two, only paper cut-outs.
"Paper cut-outs" we have all met or behaved like ourselves -- ie: real people. I have yet to meet a woman who could autopsy her husband without showing the slightest sign of emotion. I'm not saying that there wasn't any good acting or characterisation in Y1, but there were oodles of it in Y2 too. As someone else already said, I do wonder what "real people" you've been meeting to make you think the characters in Y1 were more real than in Y 2!
be fun to watch at times. If the Year One characters are of almost Ibsen type, then the Year Two characters could perhaps be better compared with Mozart opera characters if the Hanna Barbera comparison is beginning to get a little weary.
The Hanna Barbera analogy is indeed incorrect. Now if we're talking Ibsen vs Mozart, then I am definitely with you and I agree full-heartedly. I do appreciate the likes of Ibsen or Bergman much more than most people I know, and for the same reasons as Y1. The characters are symbols in a play where the metaphysical plot is more important than any realism. Like heros in legends, they are merely pawns in some complex thread of fate which they do not fully understand.
Which is all very nice for an hour a week, but not something I would want day in day out. And definitely not my philosophy of life or my view of the human condition.
When it all comes down to it, I enjoying being entertained and I enjoy identifying with the characters I'm watching. Since you mention Mozart, I'll say that "Le Nozze di Figaro" is one of my favourite operas -- I even own the film on video. It's a romp I watch for the same reason I enjoy Y2 and, say, Shakespeare -- I love the characters, I can identify with the situations, and the whole thing is great FUN!
It doesn't make Ibsen better or Mozart better. They're just completely *different* and I will watch and respect both for different reasons.
I suppose the friends and relatives of the Alphans in Year Two were as different from the friends and relatives in Year One as the Alphans differed in the two series. Two different Universes, not wanting to imply anything more than that really.
Absolutely. Since my humourous outlook and personal life conform more to Y2, I tend to like that more. It doesn't mean I don't think Y1 is great too. What I'm beginning to dislike about this list, though, is that the constant mindless Y2 bashing backs me into a corner where I feel like *finding* flaws in Y1 just so that the senseless dissing will stop!
Emma
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:36:29 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Um, just a minute here, let's not put words into Emma's mouth. <g> What I meant was that, in the particular scene where Tony and Guido are discussing the mountain of pasta, the cultural background given was stereotypical. I did not mean for one minute that Tony himself was a stereotype.
Sorry about misreading you, Emma. I suppose I should have been more aware of what I was reading as I, of course, am well aware of your fascination with Tony and Year Two. I jumped to conclusions, I believe, as I read your comments on stereotypes.
If you want a stereotype, what about Ernst Queller, since you mentioned him, the typical Mad German Scientist of so many B-movies? He got a heroic redemption, but why did he have to be German? Are no other nations on Earth capable of producing destructive inventions in the name of progress?
Well, perhaps Tony Verdeschi wasn't all that much of an Anglo-Italian stereotype wasn't all after. Well argued, Emma!
In regard of Ernst Queller, however, this is as far from a stereotype one could possible get, I sense. The way he was portrayed, in my opinion, was with such subtlty that it was as close to serious drama as SPACE:1999 ever got.
Nothing to do with "Mad German Scientist" here I feel, but, of course, with vengeful aliens from Sidon, which sounds like Sion as Pierre Fageolle points out in his magnificent little book, gives, of course, a more omnious background to what Johnny Byrne was actually contemplating while writing this episode.
My feeling when watching VOYAGER'S RETURN is that Ernst Queller is a sort of brother to Victor, if not in flesh than at least in spirit, and similar temperament of the two makes magnificent watching. SPACE:1999 at it's very best, I would say.
I have yet to meet a woman who could autopsy her husband without showing the slightest sign of emotion. I'm not saying that there wasn't any good acting or characterisation in Y1, but there were oodles of it in Y2 too. As someone else already said, I do wonder what "real people" you've been meeting to make you think the characters in Y1 were more real than in Y 2!
It is interesting how you put one of the very best episodes of Year One, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, up against the type of acting and character portrayals shown in Year Two. For me MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH not only gives tremendous insights to the psyche of Dr Helena Russel, it also mirrors the general chaos and hopelessness on Alpha that one would expect in the aftermath of the BREAKAWAY disaster.
In fact, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH is a very good example of what I would address as an Ibsen or Strindberg type of approach to science fiction that was so apparent during the early episodes, the hopelessness, the agnony, the loneliness, the feeling of loss of meaning and the fight to bring back meaning into life.
Excellent, no less, is how I would describe MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, one of the very finest and most thoughtprovoking episodes of SPACE:1999. Real people portrayed as humans with a subtle range of emotions fighting to survive, not only physically, but, perhaps even more, psychologically.
Along with BREAKAWAY, BLACK SUN, RING AROUND THE MOON and a few more, this is really one of the masterpieces of SPACE:1999 as I see it. Episodes that delt with real people and real emotions.
Which is all very nice for an hour a week, but not something I would want day in day out. And definitely not my philosophy of life or my view of the human condition.
It is interesting you say this, perhaps describing Fred Freiberger's reaction to the original series far better than I've ever seen before.
Freiberger was impressed by the special effects, the set, perhaps even the music and the strength of writing, direction and acting, but, as you put it, he probably sensed that this was a description of the world, a fatalistic description, that he did not agree with and, knowing his target audience, suspected, perhaps rightly so too, that they would not like in the long run. Not day in and day out or as a philosophy of life as you put it.
Now, it is rather striking how different the two seasons are, isn't it. While in Year One the Alphan were being kicked around as perhaps being played with by the Gods, as Victor puts it in WAR GAMES, in Year Two they have become accustomed to the universe, and no problem is to big not to be solved within the expected 50 minutes. The difference between Alpha and the Enterprise in STAR TREK, fighting against injustice in every corner of the universe while having fun exploring it all, has become very small.
Two very different philosophies indeed, Year One and Year Two.
It doesn't make Ibsen better or Mozart better. They're just completely *different* and I will watch and respect both for different reasons.
I believe I was more lucky with Mozart characters for describing Year Two than the Hanna Barbera assosiation, although I suspect Freiberger was more influence by his previous work for Hanna Barbera than going to the opera to watch Mozart when it came to writing for SPACE;1999.
My point was, however, the very same as you make yourself, preferring Ibsen to Mozart or Mozart to Ibsen is a matter of personal taste. Personally I fell perhaps Offenbach had been a better comparison than Mozart. Although the characters in "Le Nozze di Figaro" are slightly commedia dell'arte, it is still a rather psychologically complex play.
I feel "Belle Helene" or "Orfeus in the underworld" would perhaps catch the spirit of Year Two better in musical terms. The operatic equivalent of Year One would then, perhaps, be one of the early operas by Richard Strauss, such as "Salome" or "Elekra", as it contains the desperation of a Wagner although not the same bombastic language. 2001: A SPACE ODDYSEY would be the equvalent of most any Wagner opera, I feel, from "Parsifal" to "Die Walkure".
Absolutely. Since my humourous outlook and personal life conform more to Y2, I tend to like that more. It doesn't mean I don't think Y1 is great too. What I'm beginning to dislike about this list, though, is that the constant mindless Y2 bashing backs me into a corner where I feel like *finding* flaws in Y1 just so that the senseless dissing will stop!
Personally I enjoy this situation when we all respect eachother without the necessety to agree on everything. I wish, of course, that I could be on the side that was defenting rather than the side that was attacking, but sometimes I feel I only have to whisper the name of a certain favourite Year One episode of mine in order to get into that position.
I always enjoy discussing with you, Emma. You have a wonderful sense of humour and is really a great aqusition to this group.
By the way, your analysis of A MATTER OF BALANCE as a Barbara Cartland novel was one of the most insightful episode comments I've ever read on this list. Tremendously fun!
Petter
From: "Mark Meskin" (plastic.gravity@new44rock.com) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:18:21 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
I don't see that there was much characterisation in FULL CIRCLE. A hint of relationship between Sandra and Alan? What else was there?
There is a lot to like in Full Circle, besides Sandra's new "uniform". First off, there is the bit about Sandra and Alan, which would have been better if someone would have bothered to keep track of her numerous Boyfriends, "hmmmmm maybe we are giving her too much action"...she's the...um, never mind, I'll skip that. Secondly, Because Koenig and Russell are off in a cave somewhere for a good portion of the episode, we get to see more of the second tier cast. Its nice to see these guys out of main mission for a change. I also like the genuine "method" Koenig is displaying when he outlines the search. Its not just your standard "Take and Eagle, a laser, and some goofball with a purple sleeve for fodder, and go search 20,000 sq miles of that planet there" He's asking for search parties, survey photos, he's even using the Eagle like a search helicopter flying over the surface. The wildcat Carter is nice too, we all know he's a hot head, but we never see more than his normal outbursts in MM.
Too bad the episode is shackeled with a real hokey plot, and even more dubious science, especially the 2 hour rotation of the planet! Please! Can you imagine how violent the weather would be? I don't think you'd see an earth like enviroment on such a body. Then there's the mist.......which I really don't have that much of a problem with except the part with the clothes...UGGHHHHHHHHH!
Looking at episodes like VOYAGER'S RETURN, BLACK SUN, THE LAST SUNSET and so on, I always get the impression that these are *real* people living in a slightly absurd world of the moon running at random through the Universe.
yes, they are not yet the SpaceTrekkers of Freddy's year 2 universe. Has anyone noticed how much more crowded the Universe is in series 2? Its like Earth was in the backwaters of the Galaxy...totally undeveloped, and now the moon is hitting the more populated areas.........what a load of shit. I always enjoyed how in series 1, space was a cold, unfriendly, empty place. The aliens that were encountered were strange, bizarre and uninterested in humanity. The aliens in Year 2 are just so campy, and so cheesey, and all of them seem to be interested in humanity. ?????????
In the later episodes of Year One, perhaps beginning with DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION, the 14th episode in the series, realistic elements were replaced by theatrical ones.
I disagree Mr. RINGleader, DOD was a chillingly good Sci-Fi episode. I loved the concept that a frozen world has somehow stopped the aging process. What I didn't like was the tacked on timetravel 1000 years crap. This one makes me wonder if the producers should have made the show Space: 2049 or something farther into the future, just so a little more time had passed to allow some humans to escape into the far reaches of the galaxy.
I don't find all that attractive.
In BRINGERS OF WONDER there does not seem to be all that much insight given by people acting like stereotypes in a cocktail party. As Emma pointed out, Tony does not seem any less stereotypical Italian or American-Italian with the additional information given in this episode.
I'd agree.
Now, if we compare with how this kind of thing was done in Year One, take MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH where Helena encountered her deceased husband
Yes, and she acts like a wooden plank, before, during and after. This is a clunker of an episode, Petter.
or VOYAGER'S RETURN where Victor meets a fellow scientist ridden with guilt, it is strikingly how much a deeper perspective we get on the main characters. These are incidents and exploited relationships that make the actors bring out new and interesting aspects of their characters.
Now, this is something I can agree with.
Why wouldn't they be the sort of people we would meet in Year One? If you are saying that this sort of story wouldnt have been done in Y1 you're probably right,but why wouldn't these sort of people be featured? You're in danger of sounding a bit of a snob Petter :-)
I think this story could easily have been done in year one, of course, the monsters would probably have been far more menacing, or simply blobs of light. And Diana and Helena would have been rival Doctors, not rivals for John Keonigs affection. The concept is very year one, its the atmosphere that is 140% Year 2.
What about Liv Ullman as Dr Helena Russell in a future movie version of SPACE:1999? If we only could get Max von Sydow as Koenig, Erling Josephson as Victor and Ingmar Bergman to direct it. Now, what do you think about that!?
Ummmmm...... No.
I'm pretty sure this was nothing to do with Freiberger. If anything carried his stamp,it was the crappy epilogue. I think you are sometimes too keen to dump the blame on Freiberger for some of the stuff you don't like.
Yes, the Epilogue was stupid, but Koenig got in some of the best lines of the entire series in the closing moments of the fight with the Aliens. And Derek Wadsworths music(which I love immensley!) hits on all eight cylinders during the epliogue. At other times I feel the music is somewhat poorly matched to the action. Please don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the Year 2 CD(I think its a much better soundtrack than the clunker released for Year 1...complete with music from the saint or something..yuck!)
Seriously, you are probably right. While I respect Freiberger as a producer and understand that what he was doing was the way things were professionally done in America in the 1970, in SPACE:1999 and, seemingly, in other circles as well, Freiberger has become, a bit unjustly perhaps, more or less an official scapegoat.
Bullshit, he may be a very nice guy, but that's irrelelevant to what he did to the show. I'd give Gerry Anderson a few kicks to the head also, for not finding his backbone soon enough.
You know, when both Johnny Byrne,
I think Johnny is Space:1999. Much more so than Gerry.
pleaded that there was nothing he could have done. In interviews Feely expresses some irritation that Anderson was there but didn't intervene.
Anderson himself states in the 1999 documentary he should have pushed back more often on what Freddy was doing.
CATACOMBS OF THE MOON and AB CHRYSALIS that would, I believe, have been better without such influence.
I agree here also, AB Chrysalis, would have worked very well in Year 1 format.
-Mark
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:57:54 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Secondly, Because Koenig and Russell are off in a cave somewhere for a good portion of the episode, we get to see more of the second tier cast. Its nice to see these guys out of main mission for a change. [....] The wildcat Carter is nice too, we all know he's a hot head, but we never see more than his normal outbursts in MM.
Well spoken, Mark. Just for the record I might add that the doubts about whether there was any characterisation in FULL CIRCLE, the quote above, was questioned not by me but by a nice person who wanted to comment on my remark that the level of characterisation in Year Two as in no episode any better than, say, FULL CIRCLE, an episode I feel is slightly below Year One average.
Well, just a matter of taste, of course, and I enjoy very much all the nice things Simon, Emma and others say about BRINGERS OF WONDER and other episodes of Year Two, and I even agree with them to quite a large extent when it comes to evaluating the writing of such people like Donald James, Tony Barwick and Terence Feely, writers who had not contributed during Year One but had been vital parts in the writing team for UFO.
Mark's comments on positive aspects of FULL CIRCLE is something that I find even easier to agree with. Even if this episode ranks among the least succesful ones according to my book, the points Mark make are very good indeed. In fact, I basically agree with most of what he says in this respect. The main problem with the episode was the central plot about cave people with languge abilities restricted to grunting, a subject which is extremely difficult handle with intelligence I suppose, and, all in all, while not a top episode, I think it has its moments.
To me FULL CIRCLE has some of the same American flavour to it as does MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH and DRAGON'S DOMAIN in the way it handles human emotions. When I think of Art Wallace's MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, the very high pitch emotional script that was calmed down by Johnny Byrne, I think of his episode OBSESSION for the third season of STAR TREK, and episode that is strikingly similar to DRAGON'S DOMAIN in it's study of a psychologically distrubed person.
FULL CIRCLE has some of this same basic instinct feel to it, I sense, Helena showing up to be a hysterical wild beast beneath the controlled academic surface of her normal behaviour.
The only other Year One episode I can remember seeing anything of this was in END OF ETERNITY when her voice pitch goes down just about to get hysterical as Balor explains that her help is no longer needed on Alpha. A wonderful sequence, by the way, revealing the extreme talent Barbara Bain has for playing someone hysterically supressed.
I disagree Mr. RINGleader, DOD was a chillingly good Sci-Fi episode. I loved the concept that a frozen world has somehow stopped the aging process.
As being a representative of someone who lives on Ultima Thule, at least according to the definition of the Romans, I should perhaps be more positive about this one. In fact, I find there are quite a few nice things to say about it, Terpiloff's focal idea about science, technology and progress is very much core SPACE:1999, I feel, but, nevertheless, having Victor and Helena appear as idiots and very theatrical handling of dialogue and sets makes it very different from previous episodes.
Although I enjoy Shakespeare very much, both in the theatre, on film or as a book, DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION would have fared much better if it had been done in a gentler tone, perhaps with more of the Ray Austin touch for getting better rapport with the actors.
They way it turned out, it seems like a companion piece to the other King Lear/Wizzard of Oz type of episode INFERNAL MACHINE. DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION is perhaps slightly better as it is a little more fast paced than INFERNAL MACHINE, but not an episode I enjoy watching over and over again.
[Regarding "Matter of Life and Death":]
Yes, and she acts like a wooden plank, before, during and after. This is a clunker of an episode, Petter.
A wonderful episode, Mark, at least the way I see it. Although not as entertaining as RING AROUND THE MOON, it comes close, and it definitely has the early-year-one style that it shares so magnificently with BREAKAWAY and BLACK SUN.
I can't see why you don't like this one, Mark. Here, at least, we have some real emotions. Not the over-the-top type of acting that Abe Mandell and Fred Freiberger wanted as SPACE:1999 evolved, but the pure sophisticated emotions of guilt, fear, introspection, loss etc. magnificently demonstrated by Barbara Bain in one of her very best contributions to the series as a whole I would say, while being deeply contrasted by Martin Landau who demonstrates confusion, jealousy, temper, decisiveness and so on. Mind you, Barry Morse also gives a rather good performance in this one to put it mildly, now doesn't he?
MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH is a good prototype of what I feel was the essence of SPACE:1999 at its very best. Far from being an unemotional episode, I think it is one of the most emotional episodes of the series. This is probably why Johnny Byrne felt he had to make it more sober, editing and rewriting Wallace's original script.
or VOYAGER'S RETURN where Victor meets a fellow scientist ridden with guilt, it is strikingly how much a deeper perspective we get on the main characters. These are incidents and exploited relationships that make the actors bring out new and interesting aspects of their characters.Now, this is something I can agree with.
Fine. VOYAGER'S RETURN or MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, they both display the same kind of quality to me. In fact I think the resemble one another quite a lot in the way the emotional aspects are handled. The only reason for me personally liking MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH more is that it gives more room for investingating the emotional life of the main characters, John, Helena and Victor. Neither John nor Helena are given the same depth in VOYAGER'S RETURN as in MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH I think. Nevertheless, a very good episode indeed. Very, very good.
Although I do enjoy shows like BRINGERS OF WONDER as well, wonderfully witty written by Terence Feely, it is still light years away from the key Year One episodes, I think, a completely other Universe as so many put it. BRINGERS OF WONDER is a typical Year Two episode in many ways.
I think this story could easily have been done in year one, of course, the monsters would probably have been far more menacing, or simply blobs of light. And Diana and Helena would have been rival Doctors, not rivals for John Keonigs affection. The concept is very year one, its the atmosphere that is 140% Year 2.
Right on, Mark. It is surprising how such seemingly minor changes would drastically change the complete episode so very much to the better. Very, very good points, Mark.
Petter
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:23:04 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Sorry about misreading you, Emma. I suppose I should have been more aware of what I was reading as I, of course, am well aware of your fascination with Tony and Year Two.
Well, I like to think I'm not writing a 500K+ story about a bunch of stereotypes... :)
Well, perhaps Tony Verdeschi wasn't all that much of an Anglo-Italian stereotype wasn't all after. Well argued, Emma!
Hehe. He didn't do them in the series, but he actually gets to do most of the things I listed in my neverending story. (for perfectly good reasons, of course ;)
In regard of Ernst Queller, however, this is as far from a stereotype one could possible get, I sense. The way he was portrayed, in my opinion, was with such subtlty that it was as close to serious drama as SPACE:1999 ever got.
At the risk of getting shot by everyone here, I don't think much of Jeremy Kemp -- I disliked him as Picard's brother in TNG's "Family", and I thought even less of him as Queller. On the whole, I didn't particularly like this episode, even though I could see its point (humans = evil or not?).
If I may just go off at a tangent here: Something I've noticed about Y1 which Y2 stopped faffing around with was the number of humans from Earth who were already living in outer space. Boy, Earth was awfully busy sending people into space and losing them/their equipment, etc. And Alpha was mighty lucky -- or unfortunate? -- to drift into the path of all these people and things. Considering how shy NASA became after losing a handful of people (I'm not minimising anything here, just quantifying relative to the number in S1999), I'm amazed Space:1999's Earth had a space program at all. Maybe that war in 1987 was so bad everyone was in a hurry to leave Earth anyway?
Nothing to do with "Mad German Scientist" here I feel, but, of course, with vengeful aliens from Sidon, which sounds like Sion as Pierre Fageolle points out in his magnificent little book, gives, of course, a more omnious background to what Johnny Byrne was actually contemplating while writing this episode.
Well, I found it annoying that the "villain" (albeit redeemed villain) should be your average Teutonic Terror viz ze fake tcherman akzent... but then I do object to stereotypes (that's how I know that bloke in Y2 isn't one ;), and I've seen a few too many films with German-sounding villains. I happen to like the Germans (having liked one or two individual Germans *very* much in the past :), and having them always portrayed as baddies, or people who can't be trusted, gets on my wick. It's right up there with lecherous Frenchmen and gluttonous Italians (or is that the other way around? ;). Can anyone think of any good-guy Germans in scifi? Not saying there aren't any -- Petter would probably vote for Ernst Queller -- just can't think of any.
It is interesting how you put one of the very best episodes of Year One, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, up against the type of acting and character
<Ariana guffaws> Hmm... yeah, sure, one of the very best...
It's on a par with Ring Around The Moon, Missing Link, and Full Circle... currently all competing for the very bottom of my hit parade of Space:1999 episodes! (Mr Clean and the Deadly Production Schedule Episode are hovering somewhere around there too, you'll be pleased to know -- to be no doubt joined by Devil's Planet when I can be bothered to watch it)
However, even though I was thoroughly unimpressed with Matter Of Life And Death upon seeing it again recently, it *is* one of the rare Y1 episodes that I actually remembered. I seem to recall I was very impressed with the scene where they first explore the planet. I can hear everyone else thinking "yeah, well, this *is* the woman who likes The Beta Cloud" and whatever credibility I have around here promptly gets sucked into anti-matter (and naturally goes kaboom). Maybe Helena sounded more convincing dubbed into French. ;)
portrayals shown in Year Two. For me MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH not only gives tremendous insights to the psyche of Dr Helena Russel, it also mirrors the general chaos and hopelessness on Alpha that one would expect in the aftermath of the BREAKAWAY disaster.
I agree with this, although I think it could have been rendered a lot better. You might have seen tremendous insights to the psyche of Russell, Petter, but all I saw was a block of wood. But if indeed all perception is merely a matter of perspective, that would make us both right...
Excellent, no less, is how I would describe MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, one of the very finest and most thoughtprovoking episodes of SPACE:1999.
What I absolutely cannot forgive, aside from the block of wood standing in for Barbara Bain, was the ending. *Poof* and everyone is alive again. The bit where everyone was dying was the only bit where Bain convinced me, so maybe they didn't have enough money to get her to act *and* have a decent story. The two were evidently mutually exclusive.
It is interesting you say this, perhaps describing Fred Freiberger's reaction to the original series far better than I've ever seen before.
Freddie and I are evidently bosom buddies. Speaking of which, saw TOS "All Our Yesterdays" the other day -- good little episode; I didn't even cringe.
While in Year One the Alphan were being kicked around as perhaps being played with by the Gods, as Victor puts it in WAR GAMES, in Year Two they have become accustomed to the universe, and no problem is to big not to be solved within the expected 50 minutes.
If I may wax philosophical for a moment, I think we're hitting on something interesting here. Not sure if anyone else cares or if they're just going to put a killfile on "Ariana" from now on, but bear with me (and join in!) everyone else. I hope I won't embarrass myself with this -- it's been a while since my compulsory philosophy courses in high-school (French schools teach you reading, writing, arithmetic and *thinking* ;).
The contrast we seem to be establishing between the two series seems to be that between fatalistic and humanist philosophies of life and man's position in the universe.
Y1 represents fatalism -- a universe where man's destiny is defined by outside intervention.
It's the classical view of man as a toy for the Gods -- as Victor mentions in "War Games". Helpless before the challenges of space, man has to depend almost entirely on the intervention of MUFs and quasi-divine creatures like the voice in Black Sun. His control over his destiny is limited when confronted with inexplicable phenomena (Black Sun, Force Of Life, Collision Course) or far more advanced creatures/civilisations (War Games, Missing Link). Man's only defence is often to convince the powers that control him to help him (whence the arguments in Ring Around The Moon, War Games, Missing Link, Matter Of Life And Death).
Y2, on the hand, takes a humanist approach -- a universe where man's destiny is in his own hands.
This is the Renaissance view of man as the center of his universe and the master of his own destiny. He no longer has to plead with some more powerful entity for his life/freedom -- he fights for it himself (as Petter himself has pointed out, this is a theme which runs throughout the second series). His worst enemy is no longer some fickle superbeing, but himself (Seed Of Destruction, Catacombs Of The Moon, The Lambda Factor, The Seance Spectre, and to some extent, The Bringers of Wonders). If he does encounter superior forces, then he tricks his way out of the problem himself without relying on some MUF (The Exiles, One Moment of Humanity, New Adam New Eve, Dorzak, The Dorcons...).
Of course, this is a very simplistic view, since you find elements of a humanist approach in Y1 -- it does tend to be the prevalent approach on TV so it was bound to turn up in episodes like End Of Eternity, Alpha Child or Guardian Of Piri. Not much fatalism in Y2, mind you.
As I've said before, the idea of man as a plaything of the Gods is an interesting intellectual concept. It's not only something which is intriguingly old-fashioned, but also very unusual in scifi, which does tend to be about man striking out on his own, "boldly going" and all that. The initial premise of Space:1999 took the fatalistic approach by throwing man into space without warning and without his consent where other scifi is about humans who have *chosen* to travel in space (even if they ended up lost in it ;). So I can appreciate Y1 for its peculiarity.
However, it might be an intellectually interesting concept, but it does mean the protagonists are reduced to the importance of ants and run the risk of getting flattened into cardboard cutouts. I wouldn't be sitting here yacking away about it if Space:1999 had done nothing else but show the Alphans buffeted around helplessly by MUFs. Fortunately, it didn't: they fought back in Y1 and they fought back *and* had some fun in Y2. And that's why I'm here now. I'm glad the series had both the originality and the enjoyability, even if not always simultaneously.
Mozart. Although the characters in "Le Nozze di Figaro" are slightly commedia dell'arte, it is still a rather psychologically complex play.
Just the right combination as far as I'm concerned. And I don't agree that Y2 is any lower than this -- there's fun (New Adam New Eve, The Taybor) and some excellent character moments (Seed Of Destruction, Journey To Where, The Bringers Of Winder, The Lambda Factor...).
Anyone care to write "Le Nozze D'Antonio" where a (perhaps MUF-influenced) Koenig loses his marbles and starts running after Maya, prompting Helena to seek consolation from Alan while Tony devises a plot to bring Koenig to his sense without having to laser him. Okay, so we'd have to do without a subplot about Tony's parents, but it could be fun, don't you think?
Um, okay. I get the message. I'll stick to the DS9 crossover. <g>
I always enjoy discussing with you, Emma. You have a wonderful sense of humour and is really a great aqusition to this group.
Thanks. And thank Y2 while you're at it -- Maya is what brought me here.
By the way, your analysis of A MATTER OF BALANCE as a Barbara Cartland novel was one of the most insightful episode comments I've ever read on this list. Tremendously fun!
Hehe. It's remarkable what you can read into an episode when you want to.
BTW, sorry if I sound a bit weird. It's the real me coming through. It's
1.00 am and I've just finished Chapter 11 of my story, and I'm very
pleased that I seem to have worked in everyone I need -- Alpha, DS9,
Dominion, Dorcons, Kreno, Alibe, Nog, the Prophets, Shermeen, celestial
mechanics, technobabble... now I just need to finish the bloody thing
and -- probably -- inflict it on everyone here
E.T.
Definitely lost in Space:1999
From: actingman-jc@World44net.att.net Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:05:10 -0400 Subj: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Only took the ones referring to Part One. Hope I grabbed the correct items.]
It was a simple effect, but I find seeing the helmet bouncing around in the cockpit and the spacesuits swinging around very effective. Of course we also have a continuity problem because the eagle cockpit hatch is open in most shots and closed in one of Koenig's closeups.
The second the outer hatch opens and the rescue team enter the eagle, the fires should have gone out. Of course this would have presented another problem. They did not know that Koenig put his helmet on. If he hadn't, he would have died instantly when the interior was opened to the vaccum of space.
Diana and Helena...cat fight! cat fight!
Diana...another character whose lines are completly dubbed.
I think it's a weakness for the audience to learn so soon in part one that Koenig is right. I think it would have been stronger if it was written that we don't realize it until we see that it's really the eagle landing at the waste domes.
I realize this was a line uttered by the aliens trying to speed up their plan, but still, how can Earth be getting out of range of the new technology? The more contradictions in the alien's story, the more they have to exert to control the Alphans.
Another comment like the one above, but the tiny probe ship has the same range as the mother ship? And why send three members to Earth in a tiny probe ship? Just pack the mother ship with a first load of Alphans. These lapses in logic could have been used as additional fodder for the Alphans to realize what was happening to them.
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:42:03 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
At 01:01 PM 10/15/98 +0100, Simon Morris wrote:
My opinion of this one is the same as when I first saw it all those years ago: that its one of the best stories of either season. A mixture of Y2 action and bombast plus nice character work and some excellent writing(plus a couple of dumb lines..)
Agreed. A very enjoyable episode, albeit with a few flaws.
An intriguing opening which maintains the interest right from the start of the episode...and one which starts so suddenly with no explanation at first as to what has led to Koenig careening around in an Eagle. Has Koenig finally lost his marbles,we wonder?
I like the continuity of him as a leader we've already seen as stressed out. Him going crazy isn't such a stretch, considering all we've seen before, so it makes for a great start.
List who find it amusing that there just happen to be a couple of nuclear physicists loafing around in Command Center at this time. After all,we've never seen them before-and we don't see them again after this episode!
Yeah, that was stupid. And dumb. And thoughtless. Did I mention stupid? :-)
from concussion(at the very least)and there isn't a mark on him....if *I* went to people in that condition at high impact road traffic accidents my job would be a lot easier.... No folks I'm sorry but Koenig's injuries in this case were not believable,at least to me.
No, though the series really never did show much blood or bruising that I remember. Could have at least referred to internal injuries though (e.g. broken ribs, internal bruising or even bleeding): no blood or bruising, and thus no makeup either, while providing at least more medical realism. Then again, those can take awhile to heal, which could have hung up the plot. I'm not particularly a fan of blood and gore, so I can easily ignore the lack of it.
The sequences where the aliens,in their human form,and the Alphans meet are quite interesting for the character interaction and the back story given to some characters(eg Helena/Dr Shaw and Sandra and Peter). Its a pity that there wasn't more of this in both Y1 and Y2.
Yep, Y1 especially. "Dragon's Domain" did some, but there wasn't much outside of that. It could be that people were hesitant to talk about the past so soon after Breakaway, but it would have helped the characterizations to get at least a little more about them.
The only thing was,that I started to wonder: why have we never heard of Dr Shaw or Peter before?. We had a couple of confused glimpses of Sandra's convoluted love interest in Y1 and Peter was never mentioned.
I'm not necessarily sure that she WOULD mention old love interests or even fiances right off the bat. Some people never mention them at all, some bring it up later in a relationship ("we've been seeing each other for awhile, so I thought you should know..."), while some people say this up front ("Sorry, I'm not interested -- I have a fiance[/wife/girlfriend]"). The last case is more in fending off a new suitor when there's an active relationship.
Breakaway, however, severed a lot of relationships -- not just Sandra's. Given the almost zero chance of someone meeting a friend or relative of her fiance, it's not like Alan or Paul would have immediately found out about her past relationship, once she decided there was little hope for being reunited, and that she'd move on.
Overall, there'd be a variety of reactions in regard to former relationships. Some would hold out hope, some would start to move on early on, some later on, and some never. Some might easily talk about the past, while others might want to keep it under wraps for fear of not being able to move on if constantly bringing up the fact of an old relationship to new people.
It'd be a painful thing anyway, and I think that is part of what made the people of the first season look so depressed so much of the time, even as they seek out solace in others. After awhile, they'd start getting over the past, by degrees (and never entirely), which matches well to the second season (again, too quick of a break between the two, but aside from that, it makes sense, I think).
That's Sandra -- or at least a guess about her -- anyway.
As Dr Shaw had a profound influence on Helena,wouldn't he have been mentioned earlier in Y2 if nowhere else?
Not sure about Helena and Dr. Shaw. First off, he was her mentor, not a love interest, so there'd be less reason to want to keep him "under wraps" for awhile, but people don't always go talking about their mentors often either. Still, that is a weakness.
I know I'm a major supporter of the theory that Y1 and Y2 should be treated as separate series(and even universes)to avoid ulcers in comparing the two seasons-but in this case I have to say I was mildly irritated by the lack of continuity. Nitpicking I know...but there you have it. Thats what I felt.
Yes, treating them as different series can reduce ulcers, but I prefer to think that it's like there's ten missing episodes between the two seasons -- transitional episodes where hope would start replacing despair, where they'd have time to move underground from Main Mission to Command Center, where some main characters would die or ask to be reassigned elsewhere inside Alpha.
I would prefer to toss out the D.A.B. numbers listed in Y2 and replace with more reasonable numbers. Y1 would last about 1000 days, as Kevin McCorry suggests in his Space: 1999 Chronology (after all, one of the episodes, "Dragon's Domain I think, mentioned 800-some days had passed). Kevin does a good job of reconciling the numbers, but if given the chance to renumber, I would have started the second season at ~1000 D.A.B., and let it last until perhaps the same 2409 D.A.B. mentioned in "The Dorcons." I'd prefer keeping 2409 and compacting the Y2 time schedule, mainly because that's over 7 years of time as it is, twice as much as the three years the actors aged between filming the beginning of Y1 and the end of Y2.
Good interaction between the characters(Tony and Guido/Diana Morris and Helena),who come across as warm and genuine human beings(ironic really that half of them are aliens in disguise!). Cher Cameron as Louisa is very easy on the eye(mmm-mmm...)but she went to the same acting school as Yasuko Nagazumi IMO,i.e. "The Piss-Poor Acting Method".
Hmm, yeah. I was confused, though, because I always thought Cher Cameron played Diana, and that Toby Robins played one of the men. The episode didn't really tie guest actors to characters.
Toby Robins on the other hand did an amusing turn as the vampish Diana Morris,with acting that was so over the top she was in orbit! The hammy nature of her performance actually enhanced the catty dialogue between her and Helena(originally Feely wrote a lot more insult-swapping between the two..)and injected an element of character realism into the script.
The over-the-top acting did indeed enhance the dialogue, really nailing down Diana as a catty barracuda (to combine your adjective and Koenig's). The dialogue was great in that regard too, with her tossing around statements like "How very wise of you" (to Helena, regarding Helena's hooking John to the Ellendorf machine). The expressions on Helena's face were priceless, as they were on Maya later on, as Diana managed to insult a couple women with fluid ease.
Tony didn't help, though, introducing Maya as "the last of her species." How perfectly tactless, and her expression of sadness matches being reminded of that. Of course, we've already heard that she may not be the last, and later see more evidence of that. Either he forgot to say "the last known member of her species," or his mind is already being addled in the sorts of ways we see later. Still a foolish line, though.
That's when Diana says "I'm not surprised," angering Maya before flirting more with Tony, making Maya jealous besides. Diana's convincingly more tactless than Tony, and some of her words make one start to wonder if there's something more 'wrong' with her than it seems. Later on, once we find out what Diana actually is, it seems to fit, and one gets the feeling that after she and John broke up, he left with *very* strong memories and feelings of the worst of her behavior, perhaps somewhat exaggerated and *that* got picked up by the creature that became "Diana."
Friendly rivalry between brothers
I thought that scene between them, with Maya in the middle, was good; as was Guido's reaction when Maya slipped into the room, and when he kissed her hand like a gentleman and Maya was so startled (guess Tony never bothered introducing her to the gesture of chivalry :-). The expressions of all three through the scene were excellent.
and catty rivalry between women is something we'd never seen before-though they are such human traits.
Yep.
And of course Toby Robins provides some of the most amazing cleavage seen in the series......
Have to go back to "Death's Other Dominion" to find as much. :-)
Amusing sequence when Maya shows her jealousy and anger with Diana by turning into yet another space frog(and once again Albin Pahernik stays off the unemployed actors queue for the day..!)
I almost forgot to mention that I loved Diana's line to Maya, "I dooo love your makeup." Diana had a lot of choice lines.
Speaking of ludicrous monsters,I have to commit heresy at this point and say that I always thought the monsters in this episode were way-over-the -top,and actually spoiled some of the episode.
I rather like the monsters. Messy, fluid-pumping masses of oozing protoplasm heaped into to lumbering shape with an eye in the center. The Dragon was the scariest monster of the whole series, but the "Bringers" came in a respectable second or third. They've even held up relatively well over the years, IMO, looking a bit fakey, probably a bit more than the dragon because it was in shadow.
The camera swiftly follows Vincent directly into and among the group of people watching at the window,and the camera seems to be hand-held at this point as it gets right into the heart of the activity. [....] a gritty,realistic air to the action.
Definitely. The intensity of the whole scene is high, but Dr. Shaw watches dispassionately, and only seems to react with any degree of emotion when Maya turns into an insect, prompting his surprised whisper to his crewmate, "She's a metamorph," as if this is disturbing to him.
There is a little bit of padding in some parts,it seems to me. The sequence where Sandstrom is revived to attack Verdeschi seems nothing more than a gratuitous opportunity to have Maya transform into a Kendo stick-fighter(no role for Albin here. He wouldn't have been tall enough....) It doesnt add anything to the story-or to the threat the aliens pose-so why include it?
Probably her most irritating transformation to me. Okay, maybe she was practicing Kendo with Koenig a few hours before he took that joy ride in the Eagle, and that was the first thing that came to mind here; but still, it's silly.
end of part one!!
More to come...
----
David Welle
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:01:41 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
[Editor's Note: First part only, second part in other BoW ExE thread page.]
At 12:05 AM 10/18/98 -0400, actingman-jc@Worldnet.att.net wrote:
It was a simple effect, but I find seeing the helmet bouncing around in the cockpit and the spacesuits swinging around very effective. Of course we also have a continuity problem because the eagle cockpit hatch is open in most shots and closed in one of Koenig's closeups.
Didn't the series have a person in the end credits for "continuity?" I forget who, and can't check at the moment, but yes, there are some problems, though since they get almost all of it right by having the swaying, I guess they figured most people wouldn't notice -- and most probably don't until a second or third viewing or after they've been clued in by another viewer. Still....
The second the outer hatch opens and the rescue team enter the eagle, the fires should have gone out. Of course this would have presented another problem. They did not know that Koenig put his helmet on. If he hadn't, he would have died instantly when the interior was opened to the vaccum of space.
Yes, I noticed that too, so much so that I ended up making this an issue in one of my stories.
I think it's a weakness for the audience to learn so soon in part one that Koenig is right. I think it would have been stronger if it was written that we don't realize it until we see that it's really the eagle landing at the waste domes.
I don't know. Sometimes, it is fun to be clued in a bit earlier, so we can then see how long it takes the rest of the Alphans to figure it out. S19 sometimes leaves it up in the air for the audience, and sometimes clues the audience in early on, and I like that variation. I think "Bringers" would have worked as well either way -- but that's only my opinion.
I realize this was a line uttered by the aliens trying to speed up their plan, but still, how can Earth be getting out of range of the new technology? The more contradictions in the alien's story, the more they have to exert to control the Alphans.
Yep, I agree. I'm not sure if it's something I've been assuming all along or if it was subtly pointed out at some point.
Another comment like the one above, but the tiny probe ship has the same range as the mother ship? And why send three members to Earth in a tiny probe ship? Just pack the mother ship with a first load of Alphans. These lapses in logic could have been used as additional fodder for the Alphans to realize what was happening to them.
<LOL> I was just mentioning this too, in my other note.
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:19:38 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER
At 01:57 PM 10/15/98 +0000, Petter Ogland wrote:
This works surprisingly well, I agree. It is pure soap opera, of course, but, nevertheless, it helps putting things into perspective and get a glimpse of Alpha from a greater context.
Soap opera? Sorry, like Simon, I can't agree. Here, and in S19 in general, it's just character development. Soap opera is when this totally dominates the story. Soap operas, at least how it's done in the States, are full of extreme, often nasty, characters who are scheming and plotting for riches or women or men -- and the plots are all ego and character driven. Okay, that's my interpretation, and some will see it as exaggeration, but American soaps are things like "Melrose Place," "General Hospital," "Days of Our Lives," and series like that. In "Bringers," these character scenes are just part of the story, and are even shown as implanted illusions.
Even aside from the illusionary aspect, I appreciate most of the character development in Y2, because it made them a lot more human. You have often insisted that the Y1 characters seemed a lot more like real people. I feel just the opposite. Y2 sometimes flubbed characters a bit, and Y1 did have its convincing or at least believable character aspects, so it's really not a black and white thing with me.
Y1's characterizations, to me, are most believable when interpreted as a bunch of people who have been badly shocked into a generally depressed state, mixed with some occasional outbursts of anger. It's an oversimplification, and it also glosses over the fact that I *still* can't believe some of the characterizations, especially Helena's almost complete lack of emotion (like someone -- Simon? -- just pointed out a few days ago -- she seemed to have had not the slightest twitch at doing an autopsy on the body of what *looked* like her husband, and I don't find that professional, but rather almost inhuman), but Breakaway shock is a somewhat workable solution. They couldn't stay that way forever. Human hope -- irrational or not -- had to make an appearance, and they had to find ways to shake most of their shock or depression, or they would have gone insane. Science fiction, including S19, shows ways that societies could break down. Under the shock of Breakaway and the stress of encounters with dangerous powers, don't you think the same could have -- and would have -- happened to Alpha if they didn't shake loose of their shock and most of their depression?
I rather enjoyed the confrontation between Helena and Diana. Toby Robins gives a sort of Joan "Alexis" Collins flair to it, I think, and even if it is hammy, I enjoyed it. Come to think of it, it is rather difficult to find something in Year Two that wasn't hammy or over the top, now was there?
Er, I guess all the tens of kilobytes I've written over the last five
months weren't convincing.
With his expoert knowledge of the genre and how the American TV network was supposed to work, I would not be surprised if he had tables of averages and standard deviations for the length of time between fights, romance and so on.
I doubt that was done.
Personally I liked BRINGERS OF WONDER because of the dialogue,
Yes, the dialogue was great, almost as good as Feely's excellent "New Adam, New Eve."
feeling the action sequences was another example of the typical Freiberger Hanna barbara touch that he demonstrated well enough with BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP. I usually use fast forward when I watch this at home.
Hanna Barbara. Petter, it was one job, one of several. Some actors have to be *reminded* of some of their roles, and wonder if the same doesn't extend to producers and others. So I wonder if Freiberger built his whole career around his HB experience or would have had to be reminded he had even worked there. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I'm sure he remembered, but most likely didn't think about it that much. I seriously doubt he went around trying to turn everything into an HB image of the universe. If anything, it's more likely he was thinking of his Star Trek experience than anything. That's one reason ITC New York, right or wrong, wanted him, after all.
Now if he were either Hanna or Barbera themselves, maybe it would be hard to escape their past.
To Freiberger, though, it was likely just one job. Sure, it may have inspired him, in part, to create Maya, but she was presented as a lot more than a cartoon character, in my mind, having been "evolved" far past that point, like a bacteria to a person. (Okay, some cartoon characters are better than bacteria, but I was referring more to evolution.)
Nevertheless, there is some very clever editing during the action sequences of part 2, mixing it with Alan in holiday mode, very witty. In fact, the golfing and hi-fi sequences were some of the best social comments during the whole of Year Two, I think, very, very good. It shows Feely being in no ways inferior to Penfold, Byrne or di Lorenzo of Year One. Quite sad, actually, that he didn't contribute more than these two episodes for SPACE:1999 I think.
I fully agree with this whole paragraph. I liked the mixture of inplanted imagination and reality.
I'd have loved to see Feely do more scripts for the series. I'm sure he would only have got better,and I suspect he is one of the few writers who would have flourished in writing for Year 1 as well.......Absolutely!
Seconded! I also wish Feely had been able to put in more than just two scripts, and would have liked to have seen more from him, both in Y2, and in Y1.
In a way BRINGERS OF WONDER seems like a very strange amalgam of NEW ADAM/ NEW EVE and SPACE WARP, two of the most different episodes during the run of Season Two. The fights, the so-called humour, the Maya transformations the action and so on seems very much Freiberger and is very similar to SPACE WARP, while on the other hand, the philosophical elements of BRINGERS OF WONDER is as good as SPACE:1999 ever got, I feel, very much like NEW ADAM/NEW EVE.
Hmmm, interesting comparison. I think the action was better here than in "Space Warp," and mixed in with more of different elements, became one of numerous aspects, instead of the dominant focus, and I like a multi-textured story. "New Adam, New Eve" is still one of my favorites, more so than "Bringers," but "Bringers" still outdoes "Space Warp" overall.
Now if one would like some comments on SPACE:1999 from sources outside the Fandersons and this list, I feel that someone like Pierre Fageolle is a person with a far better grasp on what SPACE:1999 was all about, relating it to philosophy, fine arts, literature etc. instead of systematically comparing every episode against a similar STAR TREK episode.
Who? Sorry, I haven't heard the name Pierre Fageolle before, as far as I can remember. What was the name of his S19-related works?
Well said. Although I don't feel this is the finest SPACE:1999 ever, it is a fine example of the high quality writers being employed for writing for the series, and, at its best, containing some of the fineste sequences and some of the best dialogue during Year Two if not all of SPACE:1999.
Not quite the finest -- it's got a few too many nagging holes in it -- so I guess I agree with your whole paragraph.
Well, my whole review was in replies to others' notes, but I think I've said everything I want to say anyway (as others sigh in relief :-). I'm pushing the time envelope again, but these take awhile to write, and I really only get the chance to write *long* notes on the weekends. Oh well.
My 1.999 cents (divided by four and more, or adjusted for inflation?),
----
David Welle
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:08:56 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER
I have been under the impression that "soap opera" was orignally an American term for describing day-time trivial drama (romance) on television, financed by by people who sell soap and similar in order to have their products marketed. The term probably has wider implications now, apparently giving assosiations to "General Hospital" and its like for American viewers.
I believe the same sort of cheap drama is now being made locally all over the world, we at least have a few of them in Norway, make-up-as-you-go-along stories as a sort of simulation of real life put into some kind of social context as of a hosptial or about people working on oil-riggs and their friends and relatives as one of the most popular Norwegian soaps is about.
My point about the cocktail party in BRINGERS OF WONDER being reminicent of soap opera was that the type of conversation heard in this episode seemed extremely distant from the VOYAGER'S RETURN or MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH sort of thing. It seemed like a collection of stereotypes babbling on forever without saying anything. Not unlike the typical mindless soap opera stuff, I think.
In my opinion much of the Year Two material, the dialogue in the Woodgrove trilogy is a good example, seem to be written with this stream-of-conciousness type of technique without any of the elements that make Joyce, Proust or Virgina Woolf so intrinsicly interesting.
Even aside from the illusionary aspect, I appreciate most of the character development in Y2, because it made them a lot more human. You have often insisted that the Y1 characters seemed a lot more like real people. I feel just the opposite. Y2 sometimes flubbed characters a bit, and Y1 did have its convincing or at least believable character aspects, so it's really not a black and white thing with me.
Well, you are a Year Two lover, David, and I respect that. It is, in fact, quite interesting that some of the most interesting letters I read on this list at the moment are written by Year Two enthusiasts such as you, Simon and Emma, while what I thought was a rather more dominant group on the list, the Year One enthusiasts, are a bit more quiet or at least do not make as many comments on the Year Two episodes.
Apparently the characters in the Year Two series seem more real to you than they do to me. The people I know are definitely more like the ones portrayed in Year One. The characters in Year One behaves in a way that makes sense to me, and while the situation of the Moon drifting through a slightly absurd Universe is not a very realistic premise for a show, the way the characters are written and interpreted seem very realistic to me. For me in Year Two they do not.
Y1's characterizations, to me, are most believable when interpreted as a bunch of people who have been badly shocked into a generally depressed state, mixed with some occasional outbursts of anger.
It's not a very happy crowd, I agree with that, although they do not appear to be in a generally depressed state all the time. Episodes like THE LAST SUNSET do, however, bring out the contrast between natural life and life inside a box.
Concerning your comments on Helena, I feel very differently about this. The delicate and subtle acting of Barbara Bain makes Helena Russell into a very real person, I think. In fact, her extremely subtle characterisation of the very complex character is one of my major reasons for enjoying episodes like MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH and RING AROUND THE MOON where I sense she really outdoes herself. Absolutely fabulous!
They couldn't stay that way forever. Human hope -- irrational or not -- had to make an appearance, and they had to find ways to shake most of their shock or depression, or they would have gone insane.
There is a change in characterisation that is notable during Year One which make the characters of Year Two not all that unexpected. After the first half of the series there are some episodes where Landau, Bain and Morse almost seem to be sleepwalking through their 50 minutes. In my opinion DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION is a very sad example of this in the case of Bain and Morse, although neither of the Terpiloff scripts, with the exception of COLLISION COURSE, give Helena and Victor much meaningful things to do or say.
After DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION the episode FULL CIRCLE was produced, not impressive in terms of acting either, except the Landaus obviously having fun impersonating stone age people, and the wonderful Ziena Merton doing her best.
Well, there were ups and downs during the second half of year one, DRAGON'S DOMAIN perhaps being the worst example of what the previous exceptional level of acting had dropped to. I wonder if there is anything nice that can be said about Landau, Bain and Morse in this episode?
If disgusting to watch, it is perhaps, nevertheless, logical, both from a production point of view and a script point of view. By the end of the first year in outer space obviously the social structure of Alpha would have some blows and like mice in a box they would perhaps start chewing on eachother as is the topic of many Year Two episodes such as THE SEANCE SPECTRE.
From the production point of view it is also obvious that it was getting more and more difficult for Martin Landau to shout "launch Eagle One" and similar stuff with the same sort of conviction week after week. This is perhaps one of the reasons they just let things jerk off in DRAGON'S DOMAIN, an awful episode in acting terms, but very understandably so.
Petter
[Editor's Notes: The following note started with some needed clarification about who quoted who, though I will not repeat here.]
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@globalnet.co.uk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:12:22 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER
These people were talking in the way that I have heard people talking,and having relationships that I can identify with. Petter made the point,I believe,that it was soap opera-ish in its concentration on trivialising aspects of life. Obviously I don't go along with that or the soap opera analogy in general..... I have to say that I did not seem many recognisable traits of human character or behaviour in Y1. A lot of life consists of trivialities anyway,so the banter in BRINGERS OF WONDER seemed to me entirely realistic and colourful.
Hmmm, interesting comparison. I think the action was better here than in "Space Warp," and mixed in with more of different elements, became one of numerous aspects, instead of the dominant focus, and I like a multi-textured story. "New Adam, New Eve" is still one of my favorites, more so than "Bringers," but "Bringers" still outdoes "Space Warp" overall.
Certainly does!
Who? Sorry, I haven't heard the name Pierre Fageolle before, as far as I can remember. What was the name of his S19-related works?
I've only heard Petter mention him,but if I read French I think I'd spend a fortune to get hold of his book. From what Petter has quoted of him I think you'd have to have a heart of stone not to laugh David...one of these fellows who analyses everything and anything and sees SPACE 1999 (Year One anyway)as some kind of Sermon On The Mount. If I remember rightly,Petter says that Fageolle was suggesting that Lew Schwarz was a psedonyym for Lew Grade or something....absolute rubbish!
Simon
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:38:24 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER
I'm certain if this really captures the spirit of Fageolle's book, the misunderstanding resulting in the link between Lew Schwarz and Lew Grade was not one of the major points of Fageolle, it was only mentioned without much ado during his comments on THE MARK OF ARCHANON. I don't consider that very important, though, there has of course been other rumour or misunderstandings put out by others, such as the Bakers being responsible for DORZAK, obviously untrue, but it is not always easy to check and countercheck every piece of information that is being collected about the series. Much of my understanding of it still based on speculation.
Apart from Simon there are very few who seem to know anything about Lew Schwarz or at least have wanted to contribute their knowledge of him and his oevre on this list. If Fageolle had suggested that it was rumoured that Lew Grade used the penname of Lew Schwartz he would have gotten his point through while not risking being wrong. Well, not a great point anyway.
It is, however, true that Fageolle goes on describing SPACE:1999 by using references to fine arts, philosophy, literature, psychology and so on. A very fine book in my opinion. It is not very big, about 150 pages I seem to remember, written in an easy accessible French. To me it was very enjoyable. I got hold of it while in Paris this summer, but from what I've heard it should be available via the Internet.
Petter
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:13:20 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
At the risk of getting shot by everyone here, I don't think much of Jeremy Kemp -- I disliked him as Picard's brother in TNG's "Family", and I thought even less of him as Queller. On the whole, I didn't particularly like this episode, even though I could see its point (humans = evil or not?).
One of my favourites, VOYAGER'S RETURN, and although the questions about whether humans are evil or not, I don't find this to be the main essence of the story, although an interesting point by all means.
From my perspective the story has more to do with the guilt in the aftermath of scientific hybris. There is a very interesting relationship between Queller and his assistant, Jim Hains, in this episode that perhaps gives insight to how Johnny Byrne wanted us to think of the young Queller.
My impression of Ernst Queller is that he is definitely one of the good guys. In fact, Jeremy Kemp as Queller is in my opinion one of the better examples of casting in the series. Kemp helps to give the series dignity, I feel, in the same manner as Barry Morse does, and in many ways Ernst Queller seems like a brother of Victor Bergman.
It is not my impression that Johnny Byrne wanted to add German-sounding villains to the series. On the contrary, actually, I think he adressed this question in one of the interviews that are either on the Martin Willey site or in the Cybrary, explaining Queller as a non-Nazi scientist who just happened to be a part of the Nazi machine of mid-century.
As you point out yourself, in the wonderful comments about philosophical aspects of Year One and Year Two, the dominant philosphical underpinning of Year One is fatalism. In my opinon VOYAGER'S RETURN supports this belief very well. Koenig, Bergman, Queller, Hains all are more or less subject to forces outside themselves. The question is, of course, whether Queller was responsible for the accident that he caused, and while he may have done everything possible to prevent the accent Byrne, like the Sidons, judge him guilty.
It is a very harsh episode in many ways, I feel, but I like the serious theme of humans being responsible for their actions no matter how well-intending they may have been. The road to hell is paved with good intensions, as Helena says.
It's on a par with Ring Around The Moon, Missing Link, and Full Circle... currently all competing for the very bottom of my hit parade of Space:1999 episodes!
These are top ten episodes according to my list, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK that is. FULL CIRCLE is one of the less successful Year One episodes, I feel, although I believe Bob Kellett did improve significantly on it both by insisting on out-door locations and bringing so much attention to Sandra Benes, the true star of the episode in my opinion.
(Mr Clean and the Deadly Production Schedule Episode are hovering somewhere around there too, you'll be pleased to know -- to be no doubt joined by Devil's Planet when I can be bothered to watch it)
A MATTER OF BALANCE was an example of very poor writing and execution, I agree, although quite funny in light of the Barbara Cartland aspect. I wish Brian could comment more on the Bakers contributions to the DR WHO series. Was this more writing in the same wreched style?
Whip-wielding women dressed tight red bodysuits, pushing Koenig around was something I rather liked actually. Interesting psychology here, I only wish it had been directed by Ken Russell or Pier Paolo Passolini which would, of course, make it totally unsuitable for family viewing. DEVIL'S PLANET has interesting aspects to it.
Maybe Helena sounded more convincing dubbed into French. ;)
No, no. The subdued style of Barbara Bain was absolutely perfect for this episode, I feel, one of her best performances ever. I have also a copy of this episode where she is dubbed into German, and it is very, very dissapointing, almost as bad as having Victor dubbed into German or French.
In Year Two, however, I have watched episodes where Helena is dubbed into both German and French which definitely makes her more convincing. Not only is she more convincing, she is becomes increasingly seductive. The scene in THE EXILES, for instance, with the two Helenas, in the German version, is very, very similar to the style of Just Jacklin's EMMANUELLE (1974). Even the music is reminicent!
I agree with this, although I think it could have been rendered a lot better. You might have seen tremendous insights to the psyche of Russell, Petter, but all I saw was a block of wood. But if indeed all perception is merely a matter of perspective, that would make us both right...
Interesting you say this, Emma, as this is the essence of MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, now, isn't it? In the end Lee Russell tells Helena "See what you want to see". As Terra Nova is only a dream world, it is hence resurected into its previous glory. Wonderful episode.
What I absolutely cannot forgive, aside from the block of wood standing in for Barbara Bain, was the ending. *Poof* and everyone is alive again. The bit where everyone was dying was the only bit where Bain convinced me, so maybe they didn't have enough money to get her to act *and* have a decent story. The two were evidently mutually exclusive.
Obviously we see things differently here. In my opinion Barbara Bain's performance in MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH is close to the best performance she ever did in SPACE:1999, very fitting with one of the best stories of the series as well.
MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH is one of those episodes, like RING AROUND THE MOON, that I can watch over and over again and still feel totally fascinated. I believe it has to do with the extremely complex characters in the episode, and a very realistic description of loss, hopelessness, agony etc. especially by Barbara Bain, but also wonderful supporting work from Martin Landau and Barry Morse. This is one of the classics of SPACE:1999, I would say. Magnificent!
Y1 represents fatalism -- a universe where man's destiny is defined by outside intervention. It's the classical view of man as a toy for the Gods [....]
Wonderful, Emma, the very essence and spirit of Year One!
Although I personally woudn't emphasise MUFs and quasi-divine creatures all that much in getting to the core of understanding Year One, I feel these are more like poetic substitues for Byrne, Penfold, Terpiloff, di Lorenzo etc. speaking about religion and philosophy in a world where man is totally helpless and driven by external forces.
You put this extremely well, Emma. How wonderful it is to see in writing someone who has such similar understanding of what Year One was all about! You even use the same type of episodes to illustrate your point as I would have done, the wonderful WAR GAMES, RING AROUND THE MOON, MISSING LINK, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, BLACK SUN, FORCE OF LIFE etc. Magnificent!
Y2, on the hand, takes a humanist approach -- a universe where man's destiny is in his own hands. This is the Renaissance view of man as the center of his universe and the master of his own destiny. [....]
Indeed. This corresponds exactly to how I view it as well, the philosophy of STAR TREK, the anti-thesis of the first season of SPACE:1999.
Although my taste resides more in 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY and the first year of SPACE:1999, I am the first to admit that there are interesting philosophical issues raised in STAR TREK and Year Two as well. It is interesting, though, that the humbleness of the Alphans in Year One never make then address the major problems being raised in Year Two, described by Emma above.
Of course, this is a very simplistic view, since you find elements of a humanist approach in Y1 -- it does tend to be the prevalent approach on TV so it was bound to turn up in episodes like End Of Eternity, Alpha Child or Guardian Of Piri. Not much fatalism in Y2, mind you.
Again, very good points.
I should point out, perhaps, that neither END OF ETERNITY, ALPHA CHILD nor GUARDIAN OF PIRI are totally "humanistic", that is totally lacking of the fatalistic elements.
ALPHA CHILD has some interesting fatalistic air around it, I think, especially in the end where Jarak explains that they may not be as malevolent as they first appeared. The very reason for they villainous behaviour, survival, is also a fairly fatalistic explanation, and di Lorenzo and Penfold give us enough background to understand the moral dilemma of the episode, I sense.
GUARDIAN OF PIRI is a very interesting episode in philosophical terms,I think. Here the Alphans face a sort of computer-buddism as they search the true potensial of the human spirit, as Victor puts it, in a computer-driven nirvana on Piri. Quite fitting with the fatalistic beliefs of the Alphans in Year One, but, it was not to be, as nirvana is death and their voyage was not yet over.
As I've said before, the idea of man as a plaything of the Gods is an interesting intellectual concept. It's not only something which is intriguingly old-fashioned, but also very unusual in scifi, which does tend to be about man striking out on his own [....]
I don't know how old-fashioned fatalism really is, but I can agree that "humanism" in the form you contemplate here is surely quite a new phenomenon, with its birth in the renaissance as a necessety in order to understand the modern world of machines, computers, free market etc. that marks the time after the middle ages.
For people like Johnny Byrne, Thom Keyes etc., who, I understand, where part of the hippie movement in the UK, fatalism couldn't have been all that far away. Films like EASY RIDER, JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR etc. of the hippie and post-hippie period argue a philosophy that was in rather strong contrast to the "modern" technological thinking of the day. Even in the works of Sartre and Camus, who make personal decisions and choice as such a vital part of life, I believe there is a slight fear of fatalism.
The way I see it, with post-modern thinkers such as Lyotard and Beaudrillard, fatalism is more highly on the agenda than it has ever been before. Personally I believe this is perhaps one of the reasons that people enjoy the first year of SPACE:1999 so much now. Instead of becoming dated, like the original STAR TREK series or MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE, SPACE:1999 seem to reflect the way we think and live perhaps to an even greater extent than it did in 1975.
However, it might be an intellectually interesting concept, but it does mean the protagonists are reduced to the importance of ants and run the risk of getting flattened into cardboard cutouts. I wouldn't be sitting here yacking away about it if Space:1999 had done nothing else but show the Alphans buffeted around helplessly by MUFs.
Socio-biologist Edward Wilson was one of the first to use the metaphore of the human species being like ants in a more serious way, I believe. Personally I like this metaphore very much, and it seems like a very adequat describtion of SPACE:1999 and, even to a greater extent, 2001: A SPACE ODDYSEY.
Do you enjoy the works of Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Emma? To me his films about DIE BITTEREN TRAENEN VON PETRA VON KANT, BOLWIESER etc. are not very much more than ants running the risk of getting flattened into cardboard cutouts sometimes being buffeted around helplessly. Very much the essense of European or German drama, I would say, at least a vital part that we also recognise in Ibsen, Strindberg, Tcheckov and filmmakers like von Trotta, Herzog, Syberberg and even in the more recent star director Lars von Trier, BREAKING THE WAVES perhaps in particular.
Petter
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:16:20 +0100 Subj: Space1999: Re: Jeremy Kemp/VOYAGERS RETURN
Of Jeremy kemp and VOYAGERS RETURN,Petter wrote:
Indeed. Wonderful episode, definitely one of my favourites. One of the major reasons for me liking this episode so much is because of the very sympathetic portrayal of Ernst Queller given by Jeremy Kemp. A very fine episode indeed.
Hello Petter...either you or me are sickening for something,as I agree 100% with the above sentiments. VOYAGERS RETURN was one of my favourites in Y1,and in large measure this was due to the portrayal of Ernst Queller by Jeremy Kemp. OK,so there are those that say it is a cliche to have a German in this sort of role. Well,so what? I was touched by Kemp's performance and I imagine the majority of viewers were. In the eyes of certain Alphans(Paul Morrow and Jim Haines most obviously) Linden/Queller was little more than a monster as a consequence of events that he had no way of predicting . We can see the personal anguish that he undergoes as a result of his guilt and I suppose the story is one mans redemption at the end of it all. What was the line quoted between Queller and Helena? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". OK,so its another cliche,but isn't its validity constantly proved?
Incidentally I have to say that if as much care had been given to the characterisations of the Y1 regulars as to that given to Queller in this one episode,I would have been a much happier bunny. Sorry Petter....had to slip that one in somewhere!
Simon
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:20:55 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Absolutely. Since my humourous outlook and personal life conform more to Y2, I tend to like that more. It doesn't mean I don't think Y1 is great too. What I'm beginning to dislike about this list, though, is that the constant mindless Y2 bashing backs me into a corner where I feel like *finding* flaws in Y1 just so that the senseless dissing will stop!
I've been away for a few days,which is why I didn't respond earlier,but I agree with Emma on every single word of the above paragraph.
Just wanted to share that with you all!
Simon
From: "Brian Dowling" (hellion@easy44net.co.uk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:06:51 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
And whilst I will happily admit I am more a Y1 fan than a Y2 fan, I find it much easier to take the mickey out of Y1. Overbash Y2 at your peril, as there are those of us here who can MiST with the best of them... and I haven't forgotten my RATM skit either....
Brian Dowling - Birmingham, England
Online Alphan #144
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:05:59 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
I've been away for a few days,which is why I didn't respond earlier,but I agree with Emma on every single word of the above paragraph.
I find it a bit disturbing that most of the comments I received on the above were by private e-mail. Y2 fans unite and make yourselves heard! <g> This is our moment of the ExE after all...
Emma
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:41:00 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
I find it a bit disturbing that most of the comments I received on the above were by private e-mail. Y2 fans unite and make yourselves heard! <g> This is our moment of the ExE after all...
About one year ago I got the impression that the Year Two crowd was a very small group who never participated in any kind of episode analysis, well, except for David Welle, that is, who has been sharing his very interesting thoughts on both seasons for a very long time.
At the present, however, as we are investigating the final quarter of season two I think the discussion has been very lively with nice participation from those who favour Year One, those who favour Year Two and those who don't see much of a difference.
I really can't see why anyone should feel offended by biased posts. Although I definitely prefer Year One person myself, I must admit that I've found comments by Simon, Emma, Brian, David Welle and many others, who are less biased in favour of Year One than I am, very interesting and convincing indeed.
My impression of Year Two has definitely been altered during the last few months. While I thought the second season of SPACE:1999 was best summed up in THE BETA CLOUD or SPACE WARP, I now see the influence of British science-fiction such as UFO (Feely, Barwick, James) and DR WHO (the Bakers, Dicks), probably much more influencial in Year Two than during Year One.
Even if the execution of the episodes is mostly done in bad taste, the content is sometimes of similar quality as in Year One, I feel. As an example I think CATACOMBS OF THE MOON is in no way inferior to Terpiloff's work during Year One.
Keith Miles' ALL THAT GLISTERS is also a good example of Year Two at its very best, I think, using excessive camp in order to purvey a message of ecological conciousness. What seems to be Ray Austin's understanding of Keith Miles' apparently ironic treatment of plot and character is something that really makes this episode work, I think. Very nice indeed.
Jack Ronder, script writer for THE SURVIVORS, did a very interesting paraphrase on "survival of the fittest" and other Herbert Spencer-like themes in his BRIAN THE BRAIN, another episode that succeeded very well rather because of the silliness of Year Two than in spite of it. Very enjoyable, I would say, not at least in the French version I have in my collection.
My feeling for the discussion and analysis as we are about to enter entry number 19 out of the 24 episodes that make up Year Two is rather of content. I had no idea it would be so much fun going through this part of the ExE.
Petter
From: "langley" (langly@home4tag.com) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:11:27 -0400 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 1
Year 2 Rulez!
There, I'm standing up for it.
And BOW, as the only 2-part episode in either season, was an innovative concept. The slime creatures were sufficiently ghastly and Maya had a great role in seeing them for who they really were. Koenig's revulsion and attempts to convince the others were well-played. The character insights we got with Carter, Sandra, Maya, Tony, and others enhanced the episode and the Year 2 series.
Rene'
Related Threads (in typical Thread Pages format):
Next Chapter: "The Bringers of Wonder" (part 2)
Return to Episode by Episode
or to Space: 1999 Metaforms