Editor's Notes: The discussion between the two parts intermixed to a degree; but most notes were titled by part, and they are separate episodes (though part of the same story), so for these reasons, and sake of download length, I will edited them into two separate webpages. Some mixing still occurs, however.
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:40:36 +0100 Subj: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
I'll try and go through the second part of this story briefly. I have to say that part 2 is not quite as enjoyable as part 1(being more of the usual Y2 action and histrionics)but still a damned entertaining 50 minutes!
Helena values Dr Shaw's opinion,bearing in mind his huge influence on her chosen career and his supposed ability as a Doctor. So what is his assessment of Koenig? "His vital signs are very erratic. This could be causing his mental instability. Well,if there's anything else I can do....." Priceless. Glad he's not *my* Doctor!
As Koenig convinces Helena and Maya that he is not deluded,there comes a line that makes me laugh aloud every time Landau utters it: "When YOU look,you see people from Earth. When I look,I see monsters-from a different dimension...." Doesn't anyone else find that line hysterical,or is it just me? IMO its one of the worst in either series. Which leads me to another line of dialogue from Koenig which always leads me to grin perversely: "Helena....there are things Maya can do that you can't...". Well,you're not wrong there,mate. Some of the male members of this List have speculated about these things for a long time.....:-)
There is some great writing from Feely in both parts of the story(one or two dumb bits as well). Did anyone else catch the great throwaway line slipped in and spoken by one of the aliens whilst in their "true" form,i.e:
"They (ie the alphans)are of no consequence. They are so ugly!"
Thats a genuinely amusing line in the context that it is spoken and surely comes from Feely's pen rather than Fred Freiberger's. At this point I fondly recall some of the wittiness of NEW ADAM NEW EVE.....
The final 20 minutes are very exciting and extremely well staged action and fight scenes. They're very well done but nothing that we haven't seen before in several Y2 scripts. As usual Wadsworths exciting score enhances the action and pushes the pace even harder. Its a shame that careless production and editing spoils the stuntwork by allowing the scene where Koenig's visor flips open to stay in the final cut. But apart from that I would imagine that all this spectacle would have looked particularly impressive on a full sized movie screen. Like I say, I do find the final fight scenes a bit tedious with repeated viewing(we've seen it all before)although they are undeniably well constructed and acted. But I have to finish by paying tribute to some of Terence Feely's dialogue at the end of the final act which helps to lift the episode,namely that spoken by the alien and Koenig respectively:
" 'How long' is a meaningless term...a pygmies phrase! Time is relative. a butterfly lives a gloriously full life in a day...a single celled organism in a microsecond. So long as one is fulfilled,time is irrelevant!!"
"Its better to live as your own man.....than as a fool. In someone elses dream...." (Right on. And how often have some of us found out that *thats* true?) I just find that this is quality,expressive writing. I'd have loved to see Feely do more scripts for the series. I'm sure he would only have got better,and I suspect he is one of the few writers who would have flourished in writing for Year 1 as well.......
In the cut-together feature film DESTINATION MOONBASE ALPHA,the final fade-out comes directly after Koenig has uttered this marvellously philosophic line(one of the very best of the entire series IMO). I think this was more effective,since the epilogue in the original 2 part version is merely embarrassing and irritating when compared to some of the other scenes and dialogue in this script. I can't believe Feely was responsible for the epilogue so I prefer to blame Freddie for this(sorry Fred).
John Kenneth Muir describes BRINGERS OF WONDER as an example of how consistently Y2 "grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory". While he also acknowledges that it is essentially an impressive production,I believe he is too harsh. Yes,there are some production and continuity glitches and a couple of unintentionally ridiculous dialogue excerpts. But basically this episode is one of the best written and mounted stories of either Y2 or Y1. And certainly one of the most consistently entertaining which hasn't lost its appeal over the years.
Simon
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:45:23 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
Helena values Dr Shaw's opinion,bearing in mind his huge influence on her chosen career and his supposed ability as a Doctor. So what is his assessment of Koenig? "His vital signs are very erratic. This could be causing his mental instability. Well,if there's anything else I can do....." Priceless. Glad he's not *my* Doctor!
Heh heh.
Perhaps Dr Shaw is a doctor of philosophy or a psychatrist? :-)
Priceless comments, I agree. My only wish was that Dr Shaw was played by somebody who seemed more devoted to acting. Peter Bowles in a reprise from END OF ETERNITY would have been a perfect choice, I think.
As Koenig convinces Helena and Maya that he is not deluded,there comes a line that makes me laugh aloud every time Landau utters it: "When YOU look,you see people from Earth. When I look,I see monsters-from a different dimension...." Doesn't anyone else find that line hysterical,or is it just me? IMO its one of the worst in either series.
Feely having a bad day or Freiberger illustrating his brilliance for "improving" scripts? Either way one of the worst lines in the series, no doubt. As it rings better with the banalities of RULES OF LUTON and BETA CLOUD than NEW ADAM/NEW EVE I have my suspicions about who was responsible here.
I can well imagine Feely watching the canned version of the show for the first time, suffering in desperate silence. :-)
"They (ie the alphans)are of no consequence. They are so ugly!" Thats a genuinely amusing line in the context that it is spoken and surely comes from Feely's pen rather than Fred Freiberger's. At this point I fondly recall some of the wittiness of NEW ADAM NEW EVE.....
Wonderful, wonderful!
Have you read THE MAGUS (1966) by John Fowles, Simon? I'm about to finish it now, over the weekend. Absolutely wonderful stuff about deception and alternate worlds in the typical Feely style. I would not be very surprised if Feely was a friend or admirer of Fowles too.
The final 20 minutes are very exciting and extremely well staged action and fight scenes. They're very well done but nothing that we haven't seen before in several Y2 scripts. As usual Wadsworths exciting score enhances the action and pushes the pace even harder.
Yes, well, nice to notice that there are some of us that enjoy this kind of thing. Personally I liked BRINGERS OF WONDER because of the dialogue, feeling the action sequences was another example of the typical Freiberger Hanna barbara touch that he demonstrated well enough with BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP. I usually use fast forward when I watch this at home.
Nevertheless, there is some very clever editing during the action sequences of part 2, mixing it with Alan in holiday mode, very witty. In fact, the golfing and hi-fi sequences were some of the best social comments during the whole of Year Two, I think, very, very good. It shows Feely being in no ways inferior to Penfold, Byrne or di Lorenzo of Year One. Quite sad, actually, that he didn't contribute more than these two episodes for SPACE:1999 I think.
" 'How long' is a meaningless term...a pygmies phrase! Time is relative. a butterfly lives a gloriously full life in a day...a single celled organism in a microsecond. So long as one is fulfilled,time is irrelevant!!" "Its better to live as your own man.....than as a fool. In someone elses dream...." (Right on. And how often have some of us found out that *thats* true?) I just find that this is quality,expressive writing.
Definitvely! Magnificent. If only the rest of the episode could keep up with this standard!
Nevertheless, because of elements such as this I understand quite well why some like this episode so much.
I'd have loved to see Feely do more scripts for the series. I'm sure he would only have got better,and I suspect he is one of the few writers who would have flourished in writing for Year 1 as well.......
Absolutely!
since the epilogue in the original 2 part version is merely embarrassing and irritating when compared to some of the other scenes and dialogue in this script. I can't believe Feely was responsible for the epilogue so I prefer to blame Freddie for this(sorry Fred).
In a way BRINGERS OF WONDER seems like a very strange amalgam of NEW ADAM/ NEW EVE and SPACE WARP, two of the most different episodes during the run of Season Two. The fights, the so-called humour, the Maya transformations the action and so on seems very much Freiberger and is very similar to SPACE WARP, while on the other hand, the philosophical elements of BRINGERS OF WONDER is as good as SPACE:1999 ever got, I feel, very much like NEW ADAM/NEW EVE.
John Kenneth Muir describes BRINGERS OF WONDER as an example of how consistently Y2 "grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory". While he also acknowledges that it is essentially an impressive production,I believe he is too harsh.
Well, it's fun quoting Muir in his babbles on SPACE:1999, but I can't see any reason for taking him any more seriously than he takes himself. My impression is that the the sole purpose of "Exploring SPACE:1999" is to stir up a war of the roses among the STAR TREK enthusiasts. His comments on SPACE:1999 seem to have very little to do with the series, much more with the fun of fighting the trekkers and, partly, trying to explain how STAR TREK was revived after the orignal series by influence of SPACE:1999.
Now if one would like some comments on SPACE:1999 from sources outside the Fandersons and this list, I feel that someone like Pierre Fageolle is a person with a far better grasp on what SPACE:1999 was all about, relating it to philosophy, fine arts, literature etc. instead of systematically comparing every episode against a similar STAR TREK episode.
Yes, there are some production and continuity glitches and a couple of unintentionally ridiculous dialogue excerpts. But basically this episode is one of the best written and mounted stories of either Y2 or Y1. And certainly one of the most consistently entertaining which hasn't lost its appeal over the years.
Well said. Although I don't feel this is the finest SPACE:1999 ever, it is a fine example of the high quality writers being employed for writing for the series, and, at its best, containing some of the fineste sequences and some of the best dialogue during Year Two if not all of SPACE:1999.
Petter
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:03:08 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
I'll try and go through the second part of this story briefly. I have to say that part 2 is not quite as enjoyable as part 1(being more of the usual Y2 action and histrionics)but still a damned entertaining 50 minutes!
I agree with your analysis, Simon, and that gives me a perfect excuse not to bore everyone with my own! :)
"Helena....there are things Maya can do that you can't...". Well,you're not wrong there,mate. Some of the male members of this List have speculated about these things for a long time.....:-)
ROFL! Also, you'd think Helena (and everyone else) would have copped on to the fact Maya is a metamorph, and therefore A Jolly Useful Thing To Have On Dangerous Missions.
"They (ie the alphans)are of no consequence. They are so ugly!"
Hehe. I seem to recall Lursa and B'Etor (they of the Klingon Kleavage) saying a similar thing about human women in "Star Trek Generations". Not a great reference, I know... :)
John Kenneth Muir describes BRINGERS OF WONDER as an example of how consistently Y2 "grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory". While he also acknowledges that it is essentially an impressive production,I believe he is too harsh.
Well, I don't get the feeling anything from Y2 met his approval. And indeed, how could it? None of it was Y1! But let's not go into that again. <g>
And certainly one of the most consistently entertaining which hasn't lost its appeal over the years.
Agreed. In fact, so far I've been very impressed at how much pleasure I get from rewatching the Y2 episodes like this one. I think my favourites are (in no particular order):
I'll reserve opinion on Y1 until the BBC has finished its run and I've seen them all again. I agree with Simon that the two series are so different they should be evalued separately. But if I had to evalue them together, I still think Y2 would win out on sheer enjoyability. :)
Emma
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:39:37 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
[Editor's Note: Regarding John Kenneth Muir and his book...:]
Well, I don't get the feeling anything from Y2 met his approval. And indeed, how could it? None of it was Y1! But let's not go into that again. <g>
I've noticed that several have pointed this out, that Muir tends to favour Year One against Year Two. I can't say I was particulary struck by this myself, reading his book. My impression was rather that he disliked most of the best episodes from the stranges sort of reasons, for example a rather explicit distaste for episodes like MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, BLACK SUN and WAR GAMES I seem to remember, some of the highlights that way I see it.
Well, well. Every man his opinion. I can't remember that he express too much dicontent over RING AROUND THE MOON, and MISSING LINK was one of his favourites, I think. Personally I think RING AROUND THE MOON is the most interesting episode of the series, and MISSING LINK a very good follow up.
I can't remember what else Muir had to say about BRINGERS OF WONDER. It is interesting, however, how generously the episode has been accepted on this List.
I think my favourites are (in no particular order):
- The Lambda Factor
- The Bringers of Wonder
- New Adam, New Eve
- The Beta Cloud :P
- The Metamorph
NEW ADAM/NEW EVE is one of my favourites too, an episode that seem to hold up against time because of it's timeless plot and witty dialogue.
Personally I have enjoyed rewatching most of the Year Two episodes during the last twenty weeks or so, also finding ALL THAT GLISTERS and JOURNEY TO WHERE among the better ones. I even enjoyed THE TAYBOR and BRIAN THE BRAIN. Of the ones we have left to discuss I probably find DEVIL'S PLANET the most enjoyable, the Year Two equivalent of Year One's LAST ENEMY.
I'll reserve opinion on Y1 until the BBC has finished its run and I've seen them all again. I agree with Simon that the two series are so different they should be evalued separately. But if I had to evalue them together, I still think Y2 would win out on sheer enjoyability. :)
Year Two of SPACE:1999 is an incredibly silly show the way I see it. Nevertheless, I admit it has its moments. In episodes like CATACOMBS OF THE MOON we have the same Anthony Terpiloff as of the previous year, and at least two of the three Johnny Byrne contributions could perhaps have fittet the more serious style of Year One if being slightly modified.
Most of all, contributions by Feely, Barwick, Miles, Keynes etc. help to give the series a new face and a new direction and make some of these episodes less natural to compare with Year One and hence benetif greatly from this.
BRINGERS OF WONDER is among those episodes with a genuine Year Two feel, I sense, and which helps define Year Two as a seperate show for better and for worse. Quite enjoyable it is too, in its own peculiar way, I think.
Petter
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:55:29 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
Priceless comments, I agree. My only wish was that Dr Shaw was played by somebody who seemed more devoted to acting. Peter Bowles in a reprise from END OF ETERNITY would have been a perfect choice, I think.
No I think he is a medical doctor. After all, he taught Helena everything she knew about being a doctor,didn't he? You're right about the actor though. I too think Peter Bowles would have been a good choice(and without the fake American accent I hope....)
I can well imagine Feely watching the canned version of the show for the first time, suffering in desperate silence. :-)
Maybe. But I think the main script differences lie in what was left *out* of the televised version,rather than what was left *in*,Petter. In fact I 'm pretty sure most of it remained Feely's work....
Have you read THE MAGUS (1966) by John Fowles, Simon? I'm about to finish it now, over the weekend. Absolutely wonderful stuff about deception and alternate worlds in the typical Feely style. I would not be very surprised if Feely was a friend or admirer of Fowles too.
No I havent read it. It's be interesting to know if Feely ever read it. I can't comment on whether there is any relevance to SPACE 1999 though....
Yes, well, nice to notice that there are some of us that enjoy this kind of thing. Personally I liked BRINGERS OF WONDER because of the dialogue, feeling the action sequences was another example of the typical Freiberger Hanna barbara touch that he demonstrated well enough with BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP. I usually use fast forward when I watch this at home.
I do think you overdo the Hanna Barbera aspect Petter! All Freiberger once said was that working in kids televison sparked your imagination and prompted you do do wild things. I don't believe he was after a Hanna Barbera feel,nor did he ever say as much!
Well, it's fun quoting Muir in his babbles on SPACE:1999, but I can't see any reason for taking him any more seriously than he takes himself.
Muir does not *babble* Petter,and neither does he say that he is placing any more authority on his analyses of the series than anyone else. He is mrely using Star Trek as a point of comparison. After reading some of the clap-trap that Pierre Fagoelle has written(and quoted by you),I know whose book I'd rather have on my bookshelf,and it isnt Fagoelle!
Now if one would like some comments on SPACE:1999 from sources outside the Fandersons and this list, I feel that someone like Pierre Fageolle is a person with a far better grasp on what SPACE:1999 was all about, relating it to philosophy, fine arts, literature etc. instead of systematically comparing every episode against a similar STAR TREK episode.
See my above comments. SPACE 1999 was a superior entertainment show;not high art. Neither season was meant as fine art,philosophy or literature. I do think it came close and that Byrne's scripts werre particularly thoughtful. But it was basically a tv show. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Well said. Although I don't feel this is the finest SPACE:1999 ever, it is a fine example of the high quality writers being employed for writing for the series, and, at its best, containing some of the fineste sequences and some of the best dialogue during Year Two if not all of SPACE:1999.
Aha! So we have a point on which we are both agreed Petter :-)
Anyway,its late. And I'm off into the hills for a few days. Back next Tuesday!
Simon
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:02:28 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
Well, I don't get the feeling anything from Y2 met his approval. And indeed, how could it? None of it was Y1! But let's not go into that again. <g>
No indeed. Muir nails his colours to the mast but he generally finds constructive and positive things to say about most of the Y2 episodes,even though it is clear he is a Y1 fan first and foremost. I liked his book!
I'll reserve opinion on Y1 until the BBC has finished its run and I've seen them all again. I agree with Simon that the two series are so different they should be evalued separately. But if I had to evalue them together, I still think Y2 would win out on sheer enjoyability. :)
Right on Emma! And as for your list of enjoyable Y2 eps,it might be an idea for us all to do a brief ep by ep summary at the end of the Y2 analyses,similar to what Petter and me and one or tow others did at the end of Y1 (In my case mainly to show that I disagreed with Petter on most episodes of Y1!)
Simon
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:34:16 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
Maybe. But I think the main script differences lie in what was left *out* of the televised version,rather than what was left *in*,Petter. In fact I 'm pretty sure most of it remained Feely's work....
I agree, Simon. Unfortunately I have not read the original Feely script, so I don't know what was left out. It seems you have, however, so it would be very interesting to hear a few comments on this.
Actually I wasn't complaining of the parts of the Feely script that was left intact. If Feely was as distressed as he reported he was, I assume it would have to do both with what was left out, but probably even more with what was put in by Freiberger to replace the things left out. I would not be surprised if some of the dialogue disasters you mentioned in the previous letter had something to do with this.
By the way, here are some comments Feely gave on his work for SPACE:1999 as found on Martin Willey's site:
| I remember Space: 1999 for a wonderful character called Freddie Freiberger. I thought he was having me on when he introduced himself. He was Story Editor and he was a great old Hollywood pro there was nothing he hadn't seen, nothing he hadn't heard, no joke you could tell him that he couldn't give you the punchline to. I adored old Freddie and I got on with him like a house on fire. I had a very good experience with my first episode, New Adam New Eve and on the strength of it Gerry and Freddie asked me to do the twoparter, The Bringers Of Wonder. I called it 'The Globs' and they liked my script so much they decided to make it a featurelength story and asked me to double the length of it. I did it and they loved it. Then I went away on holiday for a month while it was being shot and when I came back I said to Gerry "How did it go?" It was a great script and he thought it was too, He said, "Terence, what can I tell you? A lot of very heavy editing went on, I'm afraid, while you were away." And I said, "Well, Gerry, you weren't away!" He said, "I know, I don't want to go into it all, but there was nothing I could do." We did lose a hell of a lot of good stuff out of that and I do remember being very annoyed when I saw what they'd done with It. |
Petter
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:50:54 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
Right on Emma! And as for your list of enjoyable Y2 eps,it might be an idea for us all to do a brief ep by ep summary at the end of the Y2 analyses,similar to what Petter and me and one or tow others did at the end of Y1 (In my case mainly to show that I disagreed with Petter on most episodes of Y1!)
Heh heh.
I remember Simon describing RING AROUND THE MOON as okay or as he put it "hm, well, I suppose, hm, okay...". I can't remember, really, if our lists differed all that much. I remember you enjoyed TESTAMENT OF ARKADIA very, very much, Simon. I also like that episode, although it is not my top favourite although I like it very much too.
I have the impression that you do not enjoy the work of Ray Austin and Edward di Lorenzo to the same extent as I do, but still I remember your taste farily close to mine. Perhaps I remember badly?
Anyway, I look forward to the Year Two summary. I see there are many suggestions for what to discuss after we are done with Year Two. Personally I think it would be fun to have another go at Year One, but it depends on if there are people willing to discuss this. After 48 weeks of SPACE:1999 analysis, a second round could reveal even more profound insights to the series perhaps.
Another project I would like to suggest, if there would be more interest in going deeper into a single episode rather than a new general analysis of the series, would be a 48 week long intense analysis of RING AROUND THE MOON.
Petter
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:04:22 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: THE BRINGERS OF WONDER part 2
At 01:40 PM 10/15/98 +0100, Simon wrote:
I'll try and go through the second part of this story briefly. I have to say that part 2 is not quite as enjoyable as part 1(being more of the usual Y2 action and histrionics)but still a damned entertaining 50 minutes!
You know, there are a lot of two part episodes that have a second part that can't quite match the intense build-up of the first part. Some flub it altogether, but S19, in its one and only attempt, got close. Certainly entertaining, as you said.
Helena values Dr Shaw's opinion,bearing in mind his huge influence on her chosen career and his supposed ability as a Doctor. So what is his assessment of Koenig? "His vital signs are very erratic. This could be causing his mental instability. Well,if there's anything else I can do....." Priceless. Glad he's not *my* Doctor!
<LOL> Should have been a clue to Helena, but then again, there minds were being addled.
As Koenig convinces Helena and Maya that he is not deluded,there comes a line that makes me laugh aloud every time Landau utters it: "When YOU look,you see people from Earth. When I look,I see monsters-from a different dimension...."
The way he says it is just so... fifties. Could have skip that phrase, and made the sentences sound so much better.
"Helena....there are things Maya can do that you can't...". Well,you're not wrong there,mate. Some of the male members of this List have speculated about these things for a long time.....:-)
<LOL>
There is some great writing from Feely in both parts of the story(one or two dumb bits as well). Did anyone else catch the great throwaway line slipped in and spoken by one of the aliens whilst in their "true" form,i.e: "They (ie the alphans)are of no consequence. They are so ugly!"
Yes, I caught this too, and it works perfectly. It's interesting to be reminded of the alien's viewpoint. 'Scrawny, hyper, with all those limbs, and a bobbing ovoid with this moving opening in it, and two eyes, TWO hideously TINY, shifty eyes. They're so awful that they even COVER themselves with fabric to hide the sight from each other. They don't even consume clean, pure energy, but consume other... oh, I can't even bear to think of what they stuff into their top ends.'
This reminds me of Maya too, and what she might have thought about the Alphan humans, having hairy, scrunched down eyebrows, plain cheeks, flat hair. Obviously, she got used to that, or didn't think much of it in the first place.
The final 20 minutes are very exciting and extremely well staged action and fight scenes. They're very well done but nothing that we haven't seen before in several Y2 scripts.
I don't know. The way that the action scenes are intermingled with implanted fantasies keeps it interesting and exciting. I like the way the enforced fantasies were played out over the course of the episode. Yes, Helena should have wondered why the "pilot ship" was in the nuclear dome area rather than on Earth, but heck, no one's even wondered up to this point why sending an initial, tiny-looking ship is important in the first place, or how it can travel as fast as the Super Swift. Maybe the writers were trying to load too much on the mind distortion, but it works well enough for me, I guess.
The aliens were weaking from the actions Koenig had taken to this point, but they were still fighting, by proxy, through the Alphans already out at the domes.
" 'How long' is a meaningless term...a pygmies phrase! Time is relative. a butterfly lives a gloriously full life in a day...a single celled organism in a microsecond. So long as one is fulfilled,time is irrelevant!!"
Well, single-celled organisms live more than a microsecond...
"Its better to live as your own man.....than as a fool. In someone elses dream...." (Right on. And how often have some of us found out that *thats* true?) I just find that this is quality,expressive writing.
... but I do love these lines, which I think are among the best of the series. Very expressive, indeed, and fitting conclusion to all that has gone before in the story.
I'd have loved to see Feely do more scripts for the series. I'm sure he would only have got better,and I suspect he is one of the few writers who would have flourished in writing for Year 1 as well.......
Silly me completely failed to notice he wrote "New Adam New Eve" until now. The dialogue in his episodes absolutely sparkles (NANE probably had the best of the series, IMO), and his grasp of characterization and plot are great as well. Pity indeed that he didn't get to do more. He'd have done well in either season. Wonder where he came from before S19 Y2, and what he did after.
In the cut-together feature film DESTINATION MOONBASE ALPHA,the final fade-out comes directly after Koenig has uttered this marvellously philosophic line(one of the very best of the entire series IMO). I think this was more effective,since the epilogue in the original 2 part version is merely embarrassing and irritating when compared to some of the other scenes and dialogue in this script. I can't believe Feely was responsible for the epilogue so I prefer to blame Freddie for this(sorry Fred).
I usually like the epilogues, and this one had some entertaining flirting between Tony and Maya, which reminds me... I liked the way Maya -- and Catherine Schell -- acting out of sorts amongst the aliens when they looked like Earth humans. Once again, she was nervous about possibly going to the humans' home, where she'd be among six billion humans instead of about three hundred -- and where the Alphans would likely go their separate directions, leaving Maya even more isolated.
Someone else mentioned this too, pointing out that there were still some ambiguous feelings about her even among the Alphans, and that this could bode for even worse problems on Earth -- an Earth which hadn't even had its first alien contact yet (heck, even in the 22nd Century(?) of "Journey to Where," there wasn't a hint of that among the "Texas City" residents -- not that it's certain then). So indeed, she could end up treated like a zoo or lab rat, even over the protests of former Alphans like the Security Officer Verdeschi or even Commander Koenig (considering the politics of 1999 -- even if these "Bringers" aliens put a happier face on Earth politics with the "rescue mission").
Tony also called her "naive" at one point, and despite her protests, she still is -- and why wouldn't she be?
But I'm on a tangent here. The epilogue. There is denouement after climax -- both standard story elements -- but the climax had such effective lines, and its own fade-out, that even though I found something to like about the epilogue, I actually think Simon's right -- that the episode should have just faded to an end as the aliens did.
----
David Welle
From: actingman-jc@World44net.att.net Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:05:10 -0400 Subj: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Second part only. First part was in first BoW thread.]
You wonder what goes on in a production that they can give such a wrong date as they did in part two.
Once again the problem of making 24 individual stories that are supposed to air in any given order: we've already heard this business about being in space for months, which in earth time is generations...yet no mention of Journey To Where. And why do the logs with the time passed in days if we realize that the number in part one is not just months, but years (5.2)?
Production blooper: showing the probe ship at the waste domes...it should have only been an eagle at the domes.
And where did these domes come from anyway? Didn't they kind of blow up about 5.2 years ago? Or are they new ones?
How does Koenig know that the aliens know that Maya is a metamorph? (Sounds like an Eddie Murphy routine doesn't it?)
I would like to have seen Helena's reaction to Maya taking the shape of one of the aliens: "My god! Is that what they look like?"
I'm surprised there hasn't been more mention of this, but I am disturbed by the reaction on both sides in this episode that the other is ugly, and so should be killed. I am no PC reactionary (as my Eddie Murphy reference should show) but it make me appreciate Roddenberry's insistance that none of his characters would ever kill something just because it is different (and of course then putting characters into situations where they can't reach their lofty ideals and fall humanly short make for good tales). A story built around the Alphan's failing to appreciate a race because of milliennium of human nature exercising it's worst tendencies towards personal differences would be far more intersting than both sides saying "Man/Blob that's ugly let's kill it!" It is also weak writing.
Why couldn't the Alphans transport the nuclear waste up into space and detonate it around the bringers? Or am I being a panty-wearing PC?
Part of the earlier production blooper: Helena sees the probe ship on the screen (which is right) but it is on the surface of the moon (which is wrong.)
The aliens are revealed, and all of the women start screaming...that is so annoying.
I must have mentioned this before, but someone in a spacesuit would not be talking into his commlock in a vaccum. Aside from the fact that the suits have radios in them, vaccum does not conduct sound waves, so Koenig's voice would not reach the mic on the commlock. The only way he could do it is if he held the mic directly against his helmet, and the helmet would conduct the sound waves to the mic.
Helena gases the base, and doesn't warn anybody to sit down before she does it? I wonder how many sprains and concussions she had to treat as a result?
The existance of the core room at the waste domes makes no sense, and will come to haunt them in a few episodes.
The former JCG@VH.Net (I'm moving and changing my provider. I'll keep signing this way unti the ExE is over.)
From: "Anthony D." (atd64@yahoo4tag.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
Hi!
I just watched this episode tonight...actually, Destination: Moonbase Alpha. I recorded it over 11 years ago when it played on a local station!
Overall, the episodes are good. There are some plot holes there, though. The stuff I was going to mention, such as Helena not reacting to the monsters when Maya changes into one, has already been touched upon. I think my copy of DMA was cut as I remember there being a scene with Tony talking to Guido about eating pasta and Guido telling Tony their mother passed away. I did notice that Diana Morris was horribly dubbed...why?
OK, what was the scene that Maya turns into fencer (is that the term?) to fight the guy who was trying to kill Koenig all about??? It had no rhyme or reason for being in the episode and I would cut it myself. I wonder if these episodes were written with the idea that they would be a big screen movie in Europe? It had several Maya transformations that really didn't need to be in there...as a big screen movie, they would be viewed as a "cool" thing.
A friend pointed out that the aliens should have known it was Maya who turned into one of them...they discovered she was a metamorph during the records room disaster. Helena gassed the base but never told the "chief engineer" about protecting himself like Koenig asked her to!
OK, I noticed one nice feature in this episode...there is a point that Maya is talking to Koenig from the Eagle to the waste domes. Instead of the normal "look straight ahead" view, Maya is actually twisted and keeps looking back (she was caring for an injured Ehrlichman) while talking to Koenig...nice touch there!
I think the scenes the aliens projected into the astronauts minds were well-filmed. The killer guy that tries to attack the dune buggy was effective!
OK, why was the guy in the Records Department able to see the aliens on film, but yet when Maya showed Helena and John the scenes and audio sent back from the explorer ship, Helena could not see the alien ships? The only thing I can think of is that after the Records Room disaster, the aliens "re-configure" their projection ability to take care of filmed items too.
Overall, the episode is good. Some plot holes that should have been filled, but rather good overall.
Anthony
From: "Ellen C. Lindow" (sfdxb@scfn.thpl4tag.lib.fl.us) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
I wonder if these episodes were written with the idea that they would be a big screen movie in Europe?
This was also a theatrical release in the States. I remember going to it with my best friend and how disappointed we were when we realized that we'd already seen it. As I remember, there wasn't much box office for it. The theatre was pretty much empty when we were there.
From: Terry Lee (TerryL@asymetrix4tag.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:00:59 -0700 Subj: RE: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
I had never heard that Destination Moonbase Alpha was showing in Theaters here in the U.S. Was this an art house type theatre?
Thanks
Terry
From: "Ellen C. Lindow" (sfdxb@scfn.thpl4tag.lib.fl.us) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Subj: RE: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
Oh, Terry! That is _so_ funny! Sorry, but I come from a tiny town in Florida where hunting dogs, 4-wheel drives and the college football games are the great topics of discussions. I'd never heard of an art house type of theater until I was in my 20's, and the closest I've ever come to being in one was the restored Tampa Theatre in downtown Tampa, and I don't think it really counts either, although they do show a few odd movies now and again.
This was in the summer of 1977, just after season 2 had ended, and it was a regular movie theatre, the first twin theatre in town, right across the street from the bowling alley and next door to the grocery store.
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:01:41 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Second part only; first part in other BoW ExE thread page.]
You wonder what goes on in a production that they can give such a wrong date as they did in part two.
Yep, that was pretty dreadful. Even if Helena were under the influence, this still doesn't make much sense.
Once again the problem of making 24 individual stories that are supposed to air in any given order: we've already heard this business about being in space for months, which in earth time is generations...yet no mention of Journey To Where.
Actually, there was a subtle reference. When John was trying to convince Koenig, he mentioned how centuries should have passed, and Maya says, "Oh, that should have occured to me." Okay, it wasn't a direct reference, and they should have had one, but it still implies some continuity.
And where did these domes come from anyway? Didn't they kind of blow up about 5.2 years ago? Or are they new ones?
Area Three, maybe? Nothing saying there weren't more than two to start with. Area One was small when it was shut down some time before Breakaway. Area Two was in major use, and much larger, by Breakaway. Perhaps Area Three was a new, experimental site.
Or yes, it could have been started after Breakaway, considering Alpha's still nuclear powered; but Alpha wouldn't have produced as much waste as Earth had been. Building the domes would take some effort and resources. Alpha may have added a dome or two after Breakaway, but I suspect the Area was already in place before Breakaway, and that it could have gone into major use once the initial phases were over.
How does Koenig know that the aliens know that Maya is a metamorph? (Sounds like an Eddie Murphy routine doesn't it?)
Hmmm, you've got a point I never noticed. The aliens say Maya transform, and Helena was around at the time, but I don't recall hearing anyone tell Koenig that.
I would like to have seen Helena's reaction to Maya taking the shape of one of the aliens: "My god! Is that what they look like?"
That was a big lapse. Well, half the time, Helena sometimes fails to show the slightest reaction to major shocks, but I thought she largely got over that in Y2. The only thing I could speculate was that in messing around in human minds, that they masked the appearance -- any hint of alien appearance -- at the general level. That is, they made it such that anytime they saw any "bringer," that it would appear as a specific human. Yet which one would Maya look like? Dr. Shaw? Then you'd think Helena would react to that. Definite flaw.
I'm surprised there hasn't been more mention of this, but I am disturbed by the reaction on both sides in this episode that the other is ugly, and so should be killed. I am no PC reactionary (as my Eddie Murphy reference should show) but it make me appreciate Roddenberry's insistance that none of his characters would ever kill something just because it is different
Well, I thought the aliens saying "they're so ugly" was a nice turnaround on the usually human-centric viewpoint of humans wanting to destroy the monstrous, and the aliens, were, after all, painted as the nasties that had a bit of a soft spot in wanting to give the humans pleasant fantasies. It's essentially consistent coming from the aliens. As far as the humans... yes, it is rather reactionary, and I wondered a little about Maya's shivering, "they're so repulsive" (though by then, she's found out their general nature).
It did bother me too, though not quite as much perhaps, because I thought of the same general comparisons to Star Trek, and realized that's the difference: that this isn't Star Trek, and that these humans, for better AND worse, are still rough-edged. Unlike those in Starfleet and the Federation, the human Alphans had never met an alien before getting flung into space, and the Alphans, despite this, generally reacted with remarkable tolerance; but they also met a monster once, in the Dragon -- and humanoid aliens who could still be monstrous in nature. Sure, they were, by "Bringers," living with an alien, Maya, who could become monsters. Yet she was warm natured and beautiful, which would certainly help ease the situation.
(and of course then putting characters into situations where they can't reach their lofty ideals and fall humanly short make for good tales).
Yes, it did.
A story built around the Alphan's failing to appreciate a race because of milliennium of human nature exercising it's worst tendencies towards personal differences would be far more intersting than both sides saying "Man/Blob that's ugly let's kill it!" It is also weak writing.
But that's not why they were looking to kill it. It was the deception, and their intent, that was the real problem in the Alphans' minds, it seems to me. Had the situation been different, the Alphans would have gotten over the looks aspect quickly. Okay, maybe that doesn't fully excuse the situation, but I tend these statements more like Simon mentioned: throwaway lines. I really don't think the story was built around that, but that's what you're saying too. Weren't there episodes discussing millenia-old human nature getting in the way?
Why couldn't the Alphans transport the nuclear waste up into space and detonate it around the bringers? Or am I being a panty-wearing PC?
There'd be no story? :-) Seriously, though, that would have taken far more effort to undertake, under influence or not. Would probably require multiple Eagle trips and careful calculations to start dumping enough in the same orbit and point in orbit. Far easier to get the Alphans to trigger it /in situ/, and even that proved too difficult in the end.
The aliens are revealed, and all of the women start screaming...that is so annoying.
Yep. Sandra's done this too often, and now it's the rest of the women. If the women scream, the men are going to cry out as well, and fling themselves backwards.
I must have mentioned this before, but someone in a spacesuit would not be talking into his commlock in a vaccum. Aside from the fact that the suits have radios in them, vaccum does not conduct sound waves, so Koenig's voice would not reach the mic on the commlock. The only way he could do it is if he held the mic directly against his helmet, and the helmet would conduct the sound waves to the mic.
Absolutely! I can live with spaceships and lasers making noise in space for dramatic purposes (one of the most basic items on the "suspension of disbelief" list for SF in movies and TV), but it doesn't serve to push beyond this with unnecessary embellishments like what you mentioned, when it doesn't add any drama.
Helena gases the base, and doesn't warn anybody to sit down before she does it? I wonder how many sprains and concussions she had to treat as a result?
Er, yeah, and I'd normally criticize her again, as I have so often in the past; but here, wasn't there some imperative not to end up warning the *aliens*?
The former JCG@VH.Net (I'm moving and changing my provider. I'll keep signing this way unti the ExE is over.)
Ah, hello again, JCG.
----
David Welle
From: actingman-jc@World44net.att.net Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:15:39 -0400 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
I wrote:
Helena gases the base, and doesn't warn anybody to sit down before she does it? I wonder how many sprains and concussions she had to treat as a result?
David Welle replied:
Er, yeah, and I'd normally criticize her again, as I have so often in the past; but here, wasn't there some imperative not to end up warning the *aliens*?
I don't think so, because at this point they had to concentrate all of their energy on the three men, so that if they broke ranks to stop Helena, they would lose control over one or more of the three. Also, (and I can't remember right now the exact sequence) aren't the aliens right there when he gives the command?
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:57:22 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: Bringers of Wonder
Good points. I think you're right on these details.
So yes, they would have worsened their situation if they tried to stop Helena instead of concentrating all their dwindling influence against the three they still "owned."
So maybe I should go back to criticizing Helena after all. :-)
----
David Welle
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