From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: ExE
THISWEEKWEDISCUSSTHEBETACLOUDFROMMONDAYSEPTEMBER14THROUGH SUNDAYSEPTEMBER20.THISISANEPISODETHATNEARLY[Hokey love scene with Tony and Maya]GOESNONSTOPATABREAKNECKANDBREATHLESSPACE!
Whew!
Mateo
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:48:36 +0100 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
G'day All
When I first saw this episode (on the 16th December 1976 to be exact) I remember being knocked out by it.Lots and lots of action,fury and fisticuffs. Well,I was only 14 years old then.....
Since then of course,my views have changed. Its curious how,with SPACE 1999,episodes that I greatly enjoyed in 1975/6 I am less than impressed with now,whereas the ones I thought were clinkers than I find a lot more watchable in 1998. THE BETA CLOUD is one of the former. Only now do I see how tedious it is.
There is one element of this episode that knocked me out in 1976 and continues to do so now...and that is Derek Wadsworth's powerhouse score for the episode. I know that he believes the music was written for SPACE WARP,but I am not so sure. Most of the score reappears in SPACE WARP(again a generally weak episode save for the music),and it seems more likely to me that it was originally written for BETA CLOUD and then reused. Thankfully,most of this score is included on the Wadsworth promo CD and as an example of pulse-pounding action music it stands on its own. The main theme for this episode(track 20 on the CD) remains my favourite piece from Y2 and was easily the most memorable element of the episode in the years between it first being screened and the day I finally saw it again on video( some 18 years). If I have any criticism it is that the piece may have been played just a tiny bit too much in the episode....but its so good I'll forgive that.
The problem with THE BETA CLOUD is that it is so weak that it *needs* the music. I actually rate RULES OF LUTON and ALL THAT GLISTERS above this episode now(there were at least a few appealing character moments in those shows). BETA CLOUD is just a series of action set-pieces which seen once are spectacular and entertaining. On repeated viewings it just doesnt stand up as a satisfying episode. There is little dialogue(even less that isn't crap)with the result that you can actually review it by fast-forwarding through much of it. In fact,I did exactly that!
Some of the direction by Robert Lynn is good: I especially like his use of low angled camera shots,for example people entering and leaving travel tubes,low angled shots of the monster which catch the ceiling,creating a claustrophobic atmosphere and enhancing the creatures size,etc. The action is also kept commendably brisk,which is presumably why its as enjoyable as a rollercoaster ride the first time you view it....its so fast moving you don't notice the less satisfying aspects......
The episode demonstrates why its bad to be a security guard on Alpha. One: the pay is piss-poor(after all,they are non-speaking parts...!) Two: they are always expendable. Three: they sometimes seem incredibly dumb at the whim of the writer. In this episode,their "rocket guns" fail to bring this hulking monster down. So what do they do? Of course!!! They throw themselves heroically at it,trying to beat it with their bare hands. With predictably tragic results.(Though you don't actually see them die...its more the comic strip approach I suppose. Can't be too grisly on a family show.)
Loads of crap dialogue:
Verdeschi "Who are you?" Cloud "Who were are is too complicated for your comprehension" Fraser "We've got time. A lot of it." Cloud "You are in error. You have very little time!"
I liked the idea of Tony ordering all doors to be locked by computer,opened only on his voice command. It also meant that this was a convenient way of keeping regulars Tate,Bain and Landau in the Medical Centre and away from the action.....:-). The only problem for me was that it then became tedious every time Anholt had to shout "open!" and "close!" every time they were near a door..... Why not ask the computer to lock all doors and key them only to his personal commlock?
Its also an episode for gratuitious Maya transformations: giant frog-with tail(sorry I don't know what else its meant to be..),mouse,and chlorine breathing creature from the planet Kreno. Comic book stuff again.
One interesting aspect was the use of the anaesthetic drug 'Ionethermyecin'...too powerful for humans according to Helena. What the hell do they have in on Alpha for then? Do they keep elephants there? No: its just a poorly-written excuse to have Verdeschi engage in gratuitous close combat with the monster(presumably he's not as dumb as the security guards),inject him with this stuff and then say: "Shit! It didn't work!".
There are two tedious and interminable sequences in the episode: firstly where Sandra Benes is instructing Fraser in how to make an electrical cable barrier. Its a small point,but I liked the way John Hug points his commlock at the finished product so that Sandra can see it on the monitor,and then deftly TURN HIS COMMLOCK UP THE RIGHT WAY to speak to her. As opposed to Verdeschi who is actually holding his commlock upside down when he is talking to Carter from outside the Hydroponics Unit. Like I say,its a small point but thats the sort of thing that annoys the hell out of me... The second bit of tedium is the sequence where Tony and Maya are suing the Moonbase Lasers to shoot up the cloud,leading it to divide and subdivide....its as if Freiberger's upping the running time of the script!
More rubbish dialogue:
Cloud: "Can't we convince you that we don't want to inflict pain?" Verdeschi: "Yeah I know. You're going to kill us with kindness!" Cloud: "Sarcasm in your present circumstance is hardly a defence!"
(Well I think its crap anyway. Where is the clever dialogue as seen in Terence Feely's NEW ADAM NEW EVE?)
Towards the end of the show there is a sudden change of pace as Maya and Tony admit their love for each other. I'd liked to have seen something like this but it was totally out of place in this action pot-boiler.In fact,it was positively cheesy. And it was nice of the monster/cloud to allow them a few seconds to get this off their chests before charging Fraser's electrical barrier again...
Maya finally realises why they haven't been able to destroy the creature. Major script/character flaw IMO. She has this astounding intellect and until the end of the episode she doesn't realise its a robot? Once that is clear,its easy for her to short-circuit it and bring the danger(and the episode)to a quick conclusion. Its totally unsatisfying-- as is the disappearance of the cloud just as the monster hits the deck.
To be fair,I found the epilogue quite amusing and well acted,especially by Catherine Schell as a very peeved Maya when Tony tells her he was only kidding about his love for her. There was a line by Maya that was a laughable attempt to explain the cloud vanishing: "It just disappeared. Its really eerie. Something almost kills us,and then just disappears as if it never was..."
Sorry folks. This episode is just ' wind and piss '(as we say in England) and nothing else. The action is well staged but ultimately fluffy and lightweight. Somewhere around I have a copy of the original script for this episode and it doesn't differ much from that which was screened(I'm not sure what version it is though). I get the impression Fred Freiberger didn't see the need for much re-writing on his own scripts :-) As it is,the script is mainly notable for a clear demonstration of Freiberger's abilities as a technical craftsman rather than any scintillating ability as a writer of dialogue etc. Personally,in 1998 I much preferred RULES OF LUTON. I happen to respect Freiberger very much but I reluctantly must say that neither CLOUD or SPACE WARP were convincing examples of his ability at writing teleplays. But to end on an upbeat note, I must mention again Wadsworth's GREAT action theme in this episode,which contributes greatly to the pace of the story(in fact,it carries it!). Primarily a percussive piece for brass and drums(drummer Ronnie Verrell is brilliant-he must have been exhausted after recording this track),I have never heard a more exciting score on SPACE 1999(and on many other tv shows)than this one.
And thats my take on this episode. As I finish I'm looking out of the window and it looks stormy. Its getting dark and....wait a minute.....there's a big,swirling..CLOUD. Its pulsating at me......its its..... AARRGGGGHHH!!!!!!
Simon
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Can't help but laugh (with sympathy) when Tony throws a gas cylinder at the "robot" (poor Dave Prowse) which grunts in audible pain because the cylinder hit it (him) right in the nuts!
Mateo
From: "Atomic Possum" (atomicpossum@toast4tag.net) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:12:47 -0500 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Ever wonder why this thing is called the 'Beta' Cloud??? Why not the Gamma Cloud or the Omega Cloud or the Theta Cloud? It's all very arbitrary, and, frankly, that's forms the big problem with the whole episode.
Okay. Alpha's rolling along through space, and comes across this big ol' cloud. Suddenly, people start falling ill and they send out an eagle to investigate the cloud, which they lose contact with. Then, once hope is lost, the Eagle returns, ol' BugEyes pops out, and things start rolling.
The entire plot is set up in the one brief scene where the cloud outlines it. 'We need your life support system,' and that's basically it. What we get from then on is a lot of running around.
This scene, which sets up everything the viewer is supposed to find interest in for the next hour, is abrupt, brief, and very unsatisfying.
---------------
Who are you?
Who we are is too complicated for your comprehension.
Try me.
Time does not permit.
We've got time...a lot of it.
You are in error. You have very little time.
What do you want?
Your life support system.
You mean we just give it to you?
We have sent for it.
We can't exist without it.
Neither can we, so we must take yours.
-------------
See? It's obvious at first viewing that they haven't bothered to work this out. Right from this scene its obvious what a five-finger exercise this is, so much so that even the writers (Freddie) don't care what's going on.
Okay, so everyone runs around for a while while the music tries to make things sound exciting.
There are actually nice bits with Maya and Tony, believe it or not. I like some of the two together in the tension of the moment, but I draw the line with the "I--gulp--love you, Maya" garbage.
And, of course, the big surprise that the creature is a robot is tremendously schlocky. 'OOOOOooooooh, there's a twist that I wasn't expecting!'
This one stinks, and it's ALL Freddie's fault, and that's not simply 'Freddie-bashing.' This redolent script is the problem, and since he wrote and produced it, there is simply no one else to blame. The complete lack of inspiration (or even a lack of deliberation) to this one is undeniable, and it plays from beginning to end like a first draft. You can see the thought processes: "I need a monster, I need action, I need several characters out of the way. I need it cheap, and fast." That, unfortunately, was the limits of his criteria--I just would have preferred that he took five minutes to think about QUALITY.
I said several months ago that this epsiode could have been improved immeasurably if they had tried to do a little bit more, a bit of ANYTHING. Given the monster wandering around the base for so long, the lack of people, the dimmed lighting, the whole thing could have been done as kind of a haunted house episode--the creature is out there in the dark, lurking, and you get to do the suspense bit. But no.....no thought went into it, and that's the reason it is such a glaring turkey on the image of Space:1999.
-----------------
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter
From: djlerda@juno4tag.com Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:42:30 EDT Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
I've wondered about that myself. Why the "Beta" cloud? It makes no sense whatsoever. Might as well call the thing the "Luton" cloud. Whoops, used that name already.
The entire plot is set up in the one brief scene where the cloud outlines it. 'We need your life support system,' and that's basically it. What we get from then on is a lot of running around.
Absolutely. This is one of the most pitiful episodes of the second season. Freiberger griped that the Year One episodes were "mild instead of dynamic, driving, searing." Well, this episode is none of those things. It is the easiest story in the world for a hack to write. An alien threat takes over Alpha until it is defeated. Ho hum. And the damn thing never tells us WHY. "We need your life support system" just doesn't cut it. It's an artificial menace. And Tony and Maya's scene doesn't do a damn thing for the episode. At least the scene with Koenig and Maya in "Luton" was well acted and believable even if the rest of the episode was junk. This whole episode is just a waste of time from start to finish. But what do you expect from Freddie who thought that "Star Trek" was "tits in space?" Once again, the American TV network background comes through. Freddie doesn't want it good, he wants it Tuesday. He may as well be ordering sandwiches from a delicatessan for all he cares. Grade: a complimentary D.
David J Lerda
From: "Atomic Possum" (atomicpossum@toast4tag.net) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:53:12 -0500 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Clod....
Hey kids,
Watchin' that nutty old Beta Cloud episode today, I couldn't help but think how much more fun the episode might be if we actually knew WHY they wanted Alpha's life-support system. Therefore, in the hope of boosting your enjoyment of this nifty episode, why not mull over the following list and watch the entertainment value soar!
Top Ten Reasons the Beta Cloud Wanted Alpha's Life Support System
10. Makes a dandy coffee table
9. Needed it to air condition the rumpus room
8. Thought it was a 'wife-support' system, and thought it could get out of
paying alimony to the former Mrs. Cloud
7. That's not a cloud, Lister's just eaten too many curries again
6. Never got one for Christmas as a kid
5. Their old one is from G.E.
4. Wants to trade it to Dr. Smith in exchange for those nifty Robinsons
3. Needs it to aerate their fishtank
2. The neighbors got one
and, the number one reason the Beta Cloud wanted Alpha's life-support
system:
1. it ups the re-sale value.
Too bad the critter didn't need bell bottoms or something the Alphans would be glad to get rid of (Commissioner Simmonds would have been perfect).
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Re: Space1999: Maya's slip up
Maya may have chosen not to turn into Tony for let's say "personal reasons". After all she might be disappointed! Or, when she thinks about the real Tony, she might find herself with an irresistable urge to...well you know how the song goes! Talk about Psychon sexuality! She could be the male during one session and the female during another!!
Mateo
From: David Acheson (dkach@hot44mail.com) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:43:00 EDT Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
So far I have to agree with all the negative criticism against THE BETA CLOUD. Like many, I was enthralled by this episode as a kid mainly due to its high action content and the wonderful action music created by Derek Wadsworth.
As an adult, I have come to realize that this is all that there is to this episode. David Lerda was right in stating that it is nothing more than one of the most simplistic plots in sci-fi: big bug-eyed monster on the loose. In fact the plot itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just what is the mystery cloud? Is there another planet or dimension on the other side? Why would aliens need Alpha's life support system? Some explanation may have helped the story but Freiberger decided to not delve into those questions. He probably thought any philosophical stance or high minded sci-fi concepts may take away from human drama. More likely, he just didn't know how to write. This episode is proof that Freiberger is all glitter and not substance.
I agree with Simon too that this episode is less enjoyable than THE RULES OF LUTON. While LUTON was mainly a dud, it was more boring than outride simplistic. The chat between Koenig and Maya in LUTON raised the level of intelligence for a short bit. No such luck in CLOUD. Even the scene where Tony and Maya finally admit their love for each other was uninteresting as it should have been a whole lot more.
Most irritating thing about the episode: The cloud itself and that scene where Tony and Maya kept firing the laser into it. Just what was that simple diamond-shaped thing that was split apart and kept coming back together? Please Fred, next time make some sense when you write a script. Even his next adventure episode, SPACE WARP, didn't sink to this level.
Only good things to note? Zienia Merton's increased and useful appearance. She finally gets something important to do - her only time in year two after her scenes in THE METAMORPH. It was somewhat nice John Hug as Bill Fraser contributed somewhat but Zienia gets my vote. I did like the scene where Maya got pissed off at the end with Tony over his "wild garbage" as he called it. A comical scene that actually worked and proof positive that Catherine Schell is a good actress. As mentioned before, Wadsworth's fantastic action score which still holds up well today and was eventually put to use in better episodes.
Thankfully, guest star Dave Prowse went on to wear the Darth Vader suit in STAR WARS. I'm sure he wants to forget THE BETA CLOUD creature. We'd like to!
David Acheson
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:09:37 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
I agree that THE BETA CLOUD is weak, at least to the extent that ALL THAT GLISTERS comes across as an absolute masterpiece by comparison, but don't know about RULES OF LUTON really. With RULES OF LUTON I feel like David Acheson who once said, I believe, that the worst sin of RULES OF LUTON is that it is boring.
Even if there is very little dialogue in BETA CLOUD and not very satisfiable on intellectual terms, I think the directon by Lynn is far better paced than Val Guest's try with RULES OF LUTON, and works far better as a chase episode.
Some of the direction by Robert Lynn is good: I especially like his use of low angled camera shots,for example people entering and leaving travel tubes,low angled shots of the monster which catch the ceiling,creating a claustrophobic atmosphere and enhancing the creatures size,etc. The action is also kept commendably brisk,which is presumably why its as enjoyable as a rollercoaster ride the first time you view it....its so fast moving you don't notice the less satisfying aspects......
I think this illustrates the Fred Freiberger philosophy quite well, and in the hands of director Robert Lynne Freiberger could not have been all dissatisfied. The episode is enjoyable on the same level as an episode of SCOOBY DOO, I think. I don't get the impression the Freiberger had any greater ambitions than that.
Verdeschi "Who are you?"
Cloud "Who we are is too complicated for your comprehension"
Fraser "We've got time. A lot of it."
Cloud "You are in error. You have very little time!"
Well, hardly Chris Penfold or Johnny Byrne, but, nevertheless, not particulary worse than THE RULES OF LUTON, I think. Obviously the psychology of the Cloud is not in question here, the interesting thing is how the Alphans respond to the threat. Within the context of the story, the arrogance of the Cloud seems reasonable enough as far as I can see.
Its also an episode for gratuitious Maya transformations: giant frog-with tail(sorry I don't know what else its meant to be..),mouse,and chlorine breathing creature from the planet Kreno. Comic book stuff again.
Yes. Interestingly enough though, it seems to indicate that the most stupid ideas in otherwise better episodes like AB CHRYSALIS, CATACOMBS OF THE MOON and BRINGERS OF WONDER were obviously written by Freiberger.
Cloud: "Can't we convince you that we don't want to inflict pain?"
Verdeschi: "Yeah I know. You're going to kill us with kindness!"
Cloud: " Sarcasm in your present circumstance is hardly a defence!"
Freiberger must have watched Ed Wood films in order to get inspiration for his dialogues. In fact all his three efforts, perhaps RULES OF LUTON and BETA CLOUD have a very nice PLAN NINE FROM OUTER SPACE feel to them, I sense.
Watching an episode like this makes it rather apparent to me why there was such a tremendous participation and response with the RING AROUND THE MOON discussion last week. Half way through Year Two people are almost crawling on the tapestry and longing for some of the substance of Year One, I can well imagine. This is how I feel at least when watching something like this.
I happen to respect Freiberger very much but I reluctantly must say that neither CLOUD or SPACE WARP were convincing examples of his ability at writing teleplays.
Well, yes. I suppose if one is looking for something positive to say about Freiberger his abilities as a technical craftsman is perhaps the safest thing to aim for.
Personally I'm not really all that impressed with that aspect either, but, nevertheless, feel that episode is interesting enough as an example of Freiberger's work for SPACE:1999 giving some hints about to which lengths he was willing to go in order to redesign the show for the Saturday morning crowd.
The most positive aspect of it all is that by seeing how disasterous the influence of ITC New York and perhaps Freiberger in particular was in the development of the show, the better side of Year One stands out even more amazing and original than if we did not have this to compare with.
Petter
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:52:15 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
David Acheson wrote:
In fact the plot itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Just what is the mystery cloud? Is there another planet or dimension on the other side? Why would aliens need Alpha's life support system? Some explanation may have helped the story but Freiberger decided to not delve into those questions. He probably thought any philosophical stance or high minded sci-fi concepts may take away from human drama. More likely, he just didn't know how to write. This episode is proof that Freiberger is all glitter and not substance.
While I almost all the time basically agree with David Acheson, I feel I differ slightly this time. For me the argument about plots making "sense" works rather in reverse to the above.
The strong points about the best episodes from both seasons, such as MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, RING AROUND THE MOON, CATACOMBS OF THE MOON and ALL THAT GLISTERS is seldom a linear plot with every element of the plot stripped naked.
Quite to the contrary, this is what makes an episode like EARTHBOUND so totally impotent, I feel. There is no subtlty, just a plot that runs as safely and nicely as a Vienna railway tram. Charmingly pedestrian, but hardly much to get all excited about as we are slowly and surely being carried around for a sight-seeing tour over Alpha.
Nevertheless. Although I don't find the point about plot all that relevant in THE BETA CLOUD, actually one of the episodes with a very linear plot that should easily satisfy those who had more difficulty following the more sophisticated plots of the better episodes of Year One, the cloud being able to talk and think does not necissarily mean that it should be viewed as anything more intelligable as the more "natural" phenomena or at least non-antropocentric phenomena that cause near fatal disaster in episodes like BLACK SUN, COLLISION COURSE, SPACE BRAIN, SEANCE SPECTRE and CATACOMBS OF THE MOON.
Freiberger more at home with childrens fair than the more general family entertainment has a great affinity for introducing human voices to anything whether humanoid or not, just like small childern do, and if we believe that what he actually wanted to do with SPACE:1999 was to make it into Hanna Barbera, introducing talking rocks, trees and clouds seems only natural.
It does perhaps not mean that the antagonists introduced have feelings or consiousness, but it evidently make the Alphans behave as if they had, which is perhaps the whole point. Just like fairy tales and comic-strips are simplifications of reality in order to have pre-school children gradually come to terms with reality, Freiberger apparently uses the same technique for getting in touch with his audience.
I agree with Simon too that this episode is less enjoyable than THE RULES OF LUTON. While LUTON was mainly a dud, it was more boring than outride simplistic. The chat between Koenig and Maya in LUTON raised the level of intelligence for a short bit. No such luck in CLOUD. Even the scene where Tony and Maya finally admit their love for each other was uninteresting as it should have been a whole lot more.
I like THE BETA CLOUD better than THE RULES OF LUTON too, which I, just like David, found more boring than simplistic. For me this also holds for the dialogue which I find definitely below par in RULES OF LUTON. While saying that the dialogue in THE BETA CLOUD had anything to do with intelligence would be an overstatement, I find the implications concerning what kind of person writing the sort of things that Tony says fascinating.
While the alter ego of Freiberger most probably was in Maya and her brother in RULES OF LUTON, I feel that he uses Tony as his main protagonist in this episode. Perhaps the Beta Cloud is a symbol of everything he felt wrong with Year One, a symbol of unclear, metaphysical, philosophical incomprehensibilities and the fight between Tony and the Cloud represents his own fight with the writers and scripts for this new season.
Most irritating thing about the episode: The cloud itself and that scene where Tony and Maya kept firing the laser into it. Just what was that simple diamond-shaped thing that was split apart and kept coming back together? Please Fred, next time make some sense when you write a script. Even his next adventure episode, SPACE WARP, didn't sink to this level.
Well, if the fight symbolises a battle of wits I don't think it is all that bad, the Beta Cloud representing European values of history, tradition, knowledge, taste etc. while Tony is a representative of pragmatics and ingenuity.
I think this was rather the highlight of the episode, the focal scene of the episode. The love scene between Maya and Tony and this shooting scene are perhaps the two most interesting and fascinating things about this episode as I see it.
Petter
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:59:57 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
David Lerda wrote:
Absolutely. This is one of the most pitiful episodes of the second season. Freiberger griped that the Year One episodes were "mild instead of dynamic, driving, searing."
It certainly makes one wonder. The John Goldsmith comment about Hampstead versus Ohio, referenced by Simon last week, probably says it all. One certainly wonders which eight brilliantly philosophical Hampstead episodes Freiberger had slept through prior to deciding the fate of the series, probably the first and best episodes I suspect, hand-picked by Johnny Byrne and Gerry Anderson.
[THE BETA CLOUD] is the easiest story in the world for a hack to write. An alien threat takes over Alpha until it is defeated. Ho hum. And the damn thing never tells us WHY. "We need your life support system" just doesn't cut it. It's an artificial menace.
Although I agree with THE BETA CLOUD being an example of how bad state SPACE;1999 was in as of being within the context of Year Two, the Beta Cloud never explaining why it wants the life support system is really the thing that worries me the least.
Quite contrary actually, many of the episodes I like the most in Year One, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, RING AROUND THE MOON, WAR GAMES, BLACK SUN etc. often neglect to explain every trivial aspect of the plot and hence become much more intruiging and open to discussion.
In fact I think the dialogue between the Cloud and the Alphans worked quite well enough. As a comparison we were never explained the reasons for the seisure of Zoref in FORCE OF LIFE, and, from my point at least, this is one of the major positive things about that particular episode.
THE BETA COULD, just like RULES OF LUTON and SPACE WARP, seems to be much more about Alpha than many other episodes. In fact I hold the Woodgrove episodes, no matter how bad they really are, to be the essence of Year Two. These three episodes seem to explain fully the Universe of Freiberger and illustrate every point he ever made about Year One whether it was Year One lack of dynamic, human relationships, humour or whatever he was commenting upon.
As John Goldsmith apparently pointed out when being interviewed about his relationship with Gerry Anderson and Fred Freiberger, the problem wasn't all that much abouth dynamics, human relationships and humour, it was more about how different cultures interpret these concepts.
In many European countries, at least in Norway, Sweden and Germany too I believe, STAR TREK was was not shown until the late seventies as it was probably considered rubbish and was only presented as a sort of substitute for SPACE:1999. I remember this quite vividly myself with the extreme banality of STAR TREK after being exposed to the more sophisticated SPACE:1999 of Year One.
Year Two was specially designed for the U.S. marked by ITC New York representative Fred Freiberger and even if it was more successful in the US than the first year (was it?), it was a failure on the world market, I believe. I France and Italy, I understand, where there was a very great following during Year One, which bombed totally with Year Two. In France I don't thing the Year Two series was showed until the late eighties and in Italy the second year was only aired once, I believe, while the original series was being rerun endlessly.
The reason is obvious. Year Two was junk.
But, sometimes even junk can hold something of value, as is so wonderfully depicted in Tim Burton's ED WOOD (1994). While the Woodgrove trilogy shows what Year Two SPACE:1999 was like on face value, some times the individual entries add more than the sum. Certain episodes like CATACOMBS OF THE MOON, ALL THAT GLISTERS, AB CHRYSALIS, NEW ADAM/NEW EVE and others sometimes work in spite of the awful context and in some odd cases, as is very much the incidense with CATACOMBS OF THE MOON and ALL THAT GLISTERS I feel, the episode works even better because of the context.
ALL THAT GLISTERS stands out as a camp classic, I feel, an episode that is charming because of the extreme amount of camp deliciously decorated by Ray Austin as a sort of tribute to the Ed Wood style and by a sort of H.C. Anderson's "The Emporers New Cloths" touch showing as early on as in episode four how misguided the whole effort of Year Two had become. Indeed it is a wonderful episode. Not only does it comment on the Year Two style, it also manages to purvey a rather well put message about consumer society and environmentalism in a non-cheek-in-toung manner. Excellent!
The other classic, CATACOMBS OF THE MOON, manages to shred the coil from ones eyes in viewing the misguided Anthony Terpiloff of Year One, I think. While Terpiloff seem totally lost with the framework of Year One, already writting Year Two type of stories, when we suddenly see his work in the Year Two context I think it works strikingly well. I'm happy that Simon and David Acheson also have said that they enjoyed CATACOMBS, and it is also nice to hear that the senior FANDERSON hold CATACOMBS quite highly.
I wonder what the FANDERSONS think of THE BETA CLOUD. I know that Pierre Fageolle, the French COSMOS:1999 authority who sometimes compares SPACE:1999 with fine arts, regards it as absolute rubbish.
And Tony and Maya's scene doesn't do a damn thing for the episode. At least the scene with Koenig and Maya in "Luton" was well acted and believable even if the rest of the episode was junk.
I remember there was a great debate as to whether Freiberger was drawing from personal experience or not when he was writing this dialogue sequence for RULES OF LUTON. Some of us were hoping that we could gain some insight as to how he was thinking as a writer by analysing this. Personally I thought the dialogue was deft, just like the dialogue between Tony and Maya in BETA CLOUD. In fact I find it quite amazing that someone with such creditials and long experience in the script writing business can produce such embarrisingly juvenile and immature dialogue as Freiberger does in his Woodgrove trilogy, but, on the other hand, he may of course be deliberatly writing in such a style in order to hit home with the Saturday morning Hanna Barbera crowd that he is apparently trying to appeal to. Judged from such a criteria it is perhaps not all that bad.
This whole episode is just a waste of time from start to finish. But what do you expect from Freddie who thought that "Star Trek" was "tits in space?"
This reference is new to me, I obvsiouly must have missed something here. While Year Two is obviously modelled on the first three seasons of STAR TREK, my impression is that Freiberger's work for Hanna Barbera is even more present in his brain, and this is where he wants to direct SPACE:1999. The inclusion of Maya is a strong hint of this, I feel, and the cartoon feel is more apparent than ever in the episodes he wrote himself.
Once again, the American TV network background comes through. Freddie doesn't want it good, he wants it Tuesday. He may as well be ordering sandwiches from a delicatessan for all he cares.
I like David's summing up, and while it is easy to attack Freiberger for having bad taste, it gives more insight to interpret his actions in order to survive as a writer/producer within the American TV network.
From my point of view he also seem very much of a survivor and winner, having contributed to a great number of projects for TV and the cinema. I do not doubt, either, that if Freiberger says something is to be finished on Tuesday then it probably is.
Yes. And a very, very nice man he is too, probably, as Johnny Byrne, Gerry Anderson and everybodywho seems to have worked with him have a tendency of saying.
Petter
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: Beta Cloud/End of Eternity
This episode offers us a clear comparison between the approach in Y1 and the approach of Y2. The episodes The Beta Cloud and The End of Eternity mirror each other somewhat. Both have single invaders rampaging around the base leaving a path of destruction. In both episodes the majority of the Alphans are "out of the way". Doors are locked by the officer in charge.
The general similarities are many. Both involved a threat from space that they happen upon (asteroid/cloud).
I'm going to reserve my comments for later, except to say one thing. I don't see anything wrong with using comparisons with Y1 as part of the analysis and discussion of Y2. Somebody posted a concern about that recently. (I am NOT being clever; I just don't remember who.) I suppose Trek fans do the same thing, comparing TNG with TOS, etc. In a show that is so "schizophrenic" it is inevitable. My thing is always asking myself, Could I really picture Victor in this episode? OR: Could I really imagine Barry Gray's music playing over this episode? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Wadsworth's music! Gray's music just set a tone of seriousness that Wadsworth's is not generally suited for--with notable exceptions of course.)
Does anyone have any thoughts along these lines? And OT (here meaning Off-Thread) are there any other Y1/Y2 mirror episodes, episodes that for the most part are very similar in plot or content?
Mateo
From: Atomic Possum (atomicpossum@toast4tag.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:57:57 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: Beta Cloud/End of Eternity
Well, there are some slight similarities, it's true, but I think your comparison bears out what I and a few others have mentioned--the difference is in the justifications and motivations involved.
Balor is a character that held points of view, had a mission, had reasons for the things he did, and could put all that into the episode. He was a threat for what he wanted, for why he wanted it, and because there was a strong intelligence and cunning behind him. He had to be outsmarted, yet humored until that could be accomplished.
The whole Beta thang didn't have that. It relied heavily on the McGuffin, the article that everyone competes for but is actually irrelevant to the goings-on beyond that. If they had established something interesting that motivated the creature/cloud, the whole thing would have held together a bit better.
And Petter, I disagree about FORCE OF LIFE being just as thin as BETA CLOUD--FORCE OF LIFE was, simply, a mystery, and that formed its value as a story--an examination of the unknown, something that empasized man's insignificance and inability to face the powers that exist in the universe. The mystery in the BETA CLOUD simply left a very two-dimensional conflict unjustified and hollow....it was an omission, not an enhancement.
A PASSING THOUGHT THAT MIGHT MAKE GOOD FAN FICTION:
Imagine the story from the cloud's point of view.....A machine drifts through space, built by an ancient race to absorb energy to power itself. It is so old that it's motivations and purposes have dimmed within its ancient, mechanical brain. It comes across the errant moon and begins to absorb energy from it, causing the Alphans to become ill.
Alpha dispatches an Eagle to investigate....As the pilot nears the cloud, he begins to pale, and draws near death...The cloud intercepts him, and, as it was created to be benevolent, is programmed to preserve his life. Logically, it would assume that it needed Alpha's life support system to do so, and the creature is dispatched to retrieve it. The episode as we know it ensues....
All in all, I am somewhat intrigued by the possibilities in this, the idea that the previously two-dimensional threat might in fact be benevolent, albeit unable to reason any longer, motivated by what partial programming remains....I think that the addition of something as simple as that could have made this into a far more appealling story.
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter
From: Patricia Sokol (SOKOLP@war.wyeth4tag.com) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:02:35 -0400 Subj: Space1999: TBC
An interesting bit of trivia once mentioned by Robert Ruiz on a previous discussion of THE BETA CLOUD. Apologies to list members who have already heard this one, or if it got posted whilst I was waiting for another digest to arrive. I also admit that I don't know the absolute veracity of it, but considering RR is the source, I'd be willing to bet it's true...
Apparently the end of the script had Tony regarding a picture of Catherine Schell, and commenting to Maya about her morphing into this person, which she does. However, in Catherine Schell's contract there is a clause about her appearing on-screen without make-up. Apparently Barabra Bain insisted this clause inserted. Now, I don't know this for absolute certain and I am not going to interpret Ms. Bain's motivation if it is true. However, because of it, the ending had to be rewritten.
Toodles
Pat.
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:55 +0100 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Well, now that everyone has sharpened their wits a bit on the ep, I might as well join in. Actual wits-sharpening will come up later (maybe), but here are a few general comments.
I'll grant you that it's a comic-book, cheesy, Seventies run-around, but I still feel no impulse to fast forward or turn it off. The criticisms levelled at the episode so far are certainly justified -- but I've just watched the show again, bearing all the criticism in mind... and, well, I still like it. :) So now, I'll attempt to find out why.
To be honest, I think nostalgia probably plays a great part. As I have mentioned before, I was very impressed with the episode when I saw it as a child and I suppose it left a lasting impression that survived seeing it again as an adolescent and then an adult. Another personal point to bear in mind is that I have noticed I have quite a high tolerance for episodes in any series which feature any kind of romance. I guess that means one kiss is probably enough to pull up the whole episode in my humble opinion. <g>
More importantly perhaps, I do have to say I like Tony and Maya. I like Y1 well enough for its scifi content, but none of the characters really grabbed my attention, so as far as I'm concerned, Freddie's changes were spot-on. Someone else on the list cheered when Koenig was written out of "Catacombs", and although I wouldn't go that far, I have to admit the fact it was Tony and Maya running around, and not Koenig and Russell, probably helps rather than hinders The Beta Cloud in my esteem.
My affection for Maya again has its roots in my childhood. It is very
rare, even today, to have a strong female character who is not overtly
sexual. Her romantic association with Verdeschi notwithstanding, Maya was
flat as a pancake
I liked the way Maya saved the day in the Beta Cloud. Yes, the clues were so obvious even Tony should have put two and two together earlier, but we have to remember that the characters haven't watched the episode over several times as we may have. And I for one didn't work it out when I saw it the first time (and my boyfriend for two). But more on that later. I just have to add that Catherine Schell is simply a delight to hear and see -- even when she's being chased by a monster.
I also enjoyed Tony's increased presence in this episode. I do like characters with a sense of humour (Garak and Quark get my vote over Sisko any day), and the sort of self-deprecating sarcasm Verdeschi displays under the pen of a *writer* with a sense of humour is, I think, the main reason I enjoy his addition to the cast so much (we're talking in general here, btw). I wouldn't say Tony Anholt has much presence on screen, but he can certainly act, and he's pretty easy on the eyes, too, if you see what I mean. (hmm, must get a copy of "Catacombs"...)
Okay, so The Beta Cloud isn't exactly a prime showcase for acting <g>, but Schell and Anholt still get their moments. I particularly appreciated their parallel expressions of gradual disappointment as they realise their cunning plan to shoot the cloud hasn't worked after all. Simon mentioned the epilogue and I agree that it was well acted, with Tony alternatively bewildered, bashful and finally delightfully smug, while Maya goes from childish enthusiasm to perfect peeve at the drop of a word.
Also, something I hadn't noticed before, and which surprised me upon viewing the episode again: the tone with which Anholt delivers the "I love you". Considering the circumstances and the script, he could have got away with making it a flat statement. But I felt there was actually a lot of feeling in the tone, like a grudging admission brought about by a sudden surge of emotion -- perhaps an attempt by Anholt to fit in with the "man under pressure" idea. (And no, I haven't been taking lessons in "extrapolation ad nauseam" from a fellow list member :)
(As an aside, Simon said "Maya and Tony admit their love for each other" -- Tony was the only one doing any admitting here. But then, what does Maya know about love? Discuss in 500 words or less, deadline 13/09/99.)
While I'm still on the subject of characters and acting, I might add, as I have mentioned before, that this episode features a bit more action for Sandra. It turns out she actually has a useful skill besides screaming and opening hailing frequencies (oops, wrong show). Admittedly, the "Bill Rigs Up A Barrier" scenes were a tad tedious, as Simon said, but they fulfil the classic purpose of a build-up before the final confrontation and on viewing the episode again, they didn't bother me all that much. At least the barrier served the plot purpose of jolting Maya into realisation. IOW, Maya *and* Sahn save the say. Left to their own devices, Tony and Bill would be toast, and Alpha one big ice cube. I doubt Freiberger had thought about it while writing the episode, but I like that. <g>
I mention our friend Freiberger, and I might just as well turn my attention to the actual story at this point. I certainly can't pretend that it's a stellar plot -- "Hero fights monster" is a theme that reaches back to Greek mythology and beyond, and as the theme goes, Freddie isn't going to win any prizes for original execution. And yet: I must have seen dozens of monster rampages as a child, and this was the one that stuck in my mind.
I never forgot the haphazard scientific method that went into defeating the monster: I apply a pretty similar technique to problem solving in my work.
- First, you notice there's something wrong and you identify the manifestation of the problem (in this case, an unknown monster -- I'll spare you the details of what I have to fight :).
- You start off by applying a method that has proved effective against similar enemies in the past (simply shooting them... um, and pounding them with your fists?)
- If that doesn't work, you try a sure-fire method of getting rid of monsters (the vacuum chamber... that's one foul-mouthed monster, btw -- I wonder how Anholt kept a straight face ;)
- Well, after that, you need to get creative (lethal injections, chlorine gas, or better still, both at the same time -- btw, Maya's the one who administers the injection, Simon, if you're interested ;)
- And if you're still not successful, you have to go and attack the root of the problem and reinstall the software... um, I mean start shooting the cloud. Anything you try after that is sheer desperation -- fortunately, Schell and Anholt do desperation very well. :)
- Maya's sudden realisation at the end is the sort of forehead slapping moment that anyone hopes for at a point like this ("what do you mean you installed a scanner?!?"). It's a logical deduction based on the result of all the previous tests, but it just needed a spark to trigger it off. Maybe all Maya needed was a kiss... Tony should bear that in mind.
Did that all make sense? Ah well, at least I'm trying to explain why I like this episode so much <g>. While we're on the subject of writing, I must say snappy dialog doesn't seem to be Freiberger's forte, but considering the nature of the episode, I guess I can forgive that. He does give Tony a couple of nicely sarky comments, but given that the cloud is hardly a witty opponent, there's not much in the way of verbal sparring going on. I did enjoy the "Psychon is my favourite planet" bit (mostly, as I mentioned, because of Anholt's delivery), and although it's a classic Reset Button scene, the epilogue is genuinely funny. (Maya might do well to check out Dave the Irishman, though, to broaden her options ;)
As far as the visual execution goes, I liked the camera angles too, and the use of lighting in some scenes (they need to get some proper emergency lights in that Medical Center, though!). I also found the billowing cloud effect itself well done -- considering what effects have been seen elsewhere in the series, that could have been much worse.
Well, I think I've said just about everything I wanted to say, and probably a lot more than the episode deserves. <g> I'm not pretending for one moment that this is one of the best episodes from an objective point of view, but I did want to explain why it's one of ones I enjoy most. It's a straight-forward romp backed by good acting and good effects, and, probably more importantly from my pov, it's the only episode to focus exclusively on Tony and Maya (elsewhere their romance is presented mainly as a pendant to the Koenig/Russell relationship). It's a pity this was as much as we got of that relationship (but then, that's where fanfiction comes in handy ;).
And indeed, why The Beta Cloud? Why not The Big Swirly Thing In Space? <g>
E.T.
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: Beta Cloud
Thinking about it. I think The Beta Cloud has a lot in common with IT: THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE (actually a good movie). In that film a spacecraft lands on Mars and (like Alien, which ripped it off later) a creature enters the ship. It starts to kill the crew one by one, level by level (the ship is a tradition rocket-ship with stacked circular decks) as the crew retreats upward level by level with the creature in pursuit. They try this and that and the other thing to kill the monster. I forget how it ends.
My point is this. It worked because the motivation of the creature was animalistic--food! In ALIEN the motivation was reproduction (and food). If the robot in The Beta Cloud had been a living deadly creature (sort of the DRAGON on Alpha, or some other creature) brought back from a planet on an Eagle brought back on remote control, and the Alphans have to kill it--THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN INTERESTING!
For my taste they could have then left out all the inane dialogue with the cloud and the silly diamond in the sky bulls**t.
Mateo
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: IT: The Terror from the Beta Cloud
I was just thinking about HOW I would have filmed an "alien monster loose on Alpha episode". I would have filmed it in darkened corridors (due to a stray laser ray hitting something during an attack or something) with neither the viewer nor the Alphans knowing from where the creature was going to attack next.
Then I realized that is exactly the how The End of Eternity was filmed--lots of darkened corridors, lots of shadows. Alpha=becomes=haunted house.
The Beta Cloud was filmed in bright Alpha corridors and the guy in the rubber suit looked like....a guy in a rubber suit!
Mateo (I think I am overanalyzing the tapioca pudding.)
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:55:33 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Petter wrote of THE BETA CLOUD:
It certainly makes one wonder. The John Goldsmith comment about Hampstead versus Ohio, referenced by Simon last week, probably says it all. One certainly wonders which eight brilliantly philosophical Hampstead episodes Freiberger had slept through prior to deciding the fate of the series, probably the first and best episodes I suspect, hand-picked by Johnny Byrne and Gerry Anderson.
Well you hit the nail on the head here Petter. For those who missed the reference,Goldsmith said that writing of the sort seen on SPACE 1999 was a result of a need for 'pace'. He said that they love dull philosophical speeches in Hampstead(London)but they go down poorly in Idaho. As a Y2 fan above Y1,I do have to agree that there were some fantastic episodes in Y1 that were great on every level,including pace. I often wonder which 8 episodes Freiberger screened prior to joining the show and who picked them.
Quite contrary actually, many of the episodes I like the most in Year One, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, RING AROUND THE MOON, WAR GAMES, BLACK SUN etc. often neglect to explain every trivial aspect of the plot and hence become much more intruiging and open to discussion.
Well yes. Again I'd agree. After all,space is supposed to be a mysterious place. Alpha was never intended to go into deep space and neither were its staff. It would be incredible if all the answers *were*provided for us. As Petter later says,what sort of explanation was provided for the alien force that takes over Anton Zoref in FORCE OF LIFE. But at least at the end of that episode there is a thoughtful postscript where they actually point out that they are in deep space..and there is so much they don't undertstand. (I suppose the boring philosophical epilogue?). But that's more than we got in the BETA CLOUD,where any sense of wonder of inquisitiveness abiout the nature of the 'cloud' is just brushed aside....
In fact I think the dialogue between the Cloud and the Alphans worked quite well enough.
Again, I speak not from the usual standpoint of a Freddie basher,but I disagree here Petter. The dialogue was terrible to my mind....sorry about that Fred,but facts are facts!
The reason is obvious. Year Two was junk.
Well,there were some poor episodes in Y2. Buth there were in Y1 as well. I disagree that Y2 was junk. This is a generalisation. Surely this is a matter of opinion!
The other classic, CATACOMBS OF THE MOON, manages to shred the coil from ones eyes in viewing the misguided Anthony Terpiloff of Year One, I think. While Terpiloff seem totally lost with the framework of Year One, already writting Year Two type of stories, when we suddenly see his work in the Year Two context I think it works strikingly well.
I don't think CATACOMBS was any classic. I quite enjoyed it,that's about all. IMHO,Terpiloff was a hell of a lot more at home in Y1 than in Y2. In year 1 he wrote some great episodes.....
I wonder what the FANDERSONS think of THE BETA CLOUD. I know that Pierre Fageolle, the French COSMOS:1999 authority who sometimes compares SPACE:1999 with fine arts, regards it as absolute rubbish.
Perhaps so,but from what you have told us about Fageolle in previous posts,I would be surprised if he viewed the episode as anything else. But isn't this the chap who said/hinted that Lew Grade had written an episodes under a psuedonym or something? So I don't think I shall put more store in what he thinks! But just to be fair, I have the greatest respect for John Kenneth Muir and his excellent book "Exploring Space 1999"...yet I don't agree with *his* assessment of NEW ADAM NEW EVE either! I thought that episode was one of the top 5 of Y2.....
I like David's summing up, and while it is easy to attack Freiberger for having bad taste, it gives more insight to interpret his actions in order to survive as a writer/producer within the American TV network.
That's right. Freiberger has gone on record and said as much. He said that the term "hack writer" had a stigma attached to it that was undeserved,as it was tough to keep to a formula-type show and within strictly laid down guidelines. And he's correct.
Simon
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:23:10 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Jon Stadter wrote:
Ever wonder why this thing is called the 'Beta' Cloud??? Why not the Gamma Cloud or the Omega Cloud or the Theta Cloud? It's all very arbitrary, and, frankly, that's forms the big problem with the whole episode.
This is a point I missed in my analysis of the episode,bit its a fair one. There are one or two irrelevant episode titles in Y2: eg SEANCE SPECTRE and IMMUNITY SYNDROME. I believe the former was originally titled THE MUTINY and the later THE FACE OF EDEN. OK,so "The Mutiny" isn't an inspiring title but at least it describes the episode better than the name finally used. And why not use "The Face of Eden"? I think that was a great title! Yep,it *is*arbitrary!
Okay, so everyone runs around for a while while the music tries to make things sound exciting.
Well,as I've said,its a series of set-pieces propped up by music. GREAT music!
There are actually nice bits with Maya and Tony, believe it or not. I like some of the two together in the tension of the moment, but I draw the line with the "I--gulp--love you, Maya" garbage.
It was a very cheesy moment in the story...and completely out of place within this particular story. I reckon it was padding to fill out the episodes running time?
This one stinks, and it's ALL Freddie's fault, and that's not simply 'Freddie-bashing.' This redolent script is the problem, and since he wrote and produced it, there is simply no one else to blame.
I've never regarded myself as a Freddie-basher,but IMO he has to take the blame for this one. Like I said,I thought it was a great episode in 1976....when I was 14 years old. I can see the other side of the coin now. Says it all really,doesn't it?
Simon Morris
From: Simon Morris (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:45:45 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Emma wrote of THE BETA CLOUD:
More importantly perhaps, I do have to say I like Tony and Maya. I like Y1 well enough for its scifi content, but none of the characters really grabbed my attention, so as far as I'm concerned, Freddie's changes were spot-on. Someone else on the list cheered when Koenig was written out of "Catacombs", and although I wouldn't go that far, I have to admit the fact it was Tony and Maya running around, and not Koenig and Russell, probably helps rather than hinders The Beta Cloud in my esteem.
Well said. I have no complaints regarding Koenig in Y1 (but I think Landau's high standard of acting helped) but other characters were woefully developed and written. Helena Russell had no real personality or screen precence. Morrow did not have much of a character,etc. People did not seem to talk as "individuals". I got a little bit tired of Verdeschi's brash wise-ass character but I still thought he was an improvement on Morrow. The introduction of Maya was a great move. I neither believe she was intended as a STAR TREK rip-off or as a "Hanna Barbera" character(and IMO that phrase is starting to appear over-used). Freiberger successfully made something of the characters and that alone was an improvement over Y1.
My affection for Maya again has its roots in my childhood. It is very rare, even today, to have a strong female character who is not overtly sexual. Her romantic association with Verdeschi notwithstanding, Maya was flat as a pancake (dons asbestos suit ;) and didn't go around the station wearing some slinky alien get-up.
Who was it on the List called her "foxy"?! She was sexy without being overtly sexual. Also she could project a nice air of innocence. All credit to that great actress Catherine Schell too: much of it was down to her...
I liked the way Maya saved the day in the Beta Cloud. Yes, the clues were so obvious even Tony should have put two and two together earlier, but we have to remember that the characters haven't watched the episode over several times as we may have. And I for one didn't work it out when I saw it the first time (and my boyfriend for two). But more on that later. I just have to add that Catherine Schell is simply a delight to hear and see -- even when she's being chased by a monster.
Tony Verdeschi is many things...but a monster? (Oops sorry...not what you meant). I agree with the latter sentiments but not the former. It really wasn't well put together as far as I could see.
Simon mentioned the epilogue and I agree that it was well acted, with Tony alternatively bewildered, bashful and finally delightfully smug, while Maya goes from childish enthusiasm to perfect peeve at the drop of a word.
The epilogue was one of the best bits and probably the best dialogue as it was CHARACTER DRIVEN. My God, I've *heard* exchanges like that myself. (Well actually been part of one I suppose...)It didn't sound like phoney dialogue. And that certainly appears in some Y2 humour!
Also, something I hadn't noticed before, and which surprised me upon viewing the episode again: the tone with which Anholt delivers the "I love you". Considering the circumstances and the script, he could have got away with making it a flat statement. But I felt there was actually a lot of feeling in the tone,
Well,he delivers it with conviction because he really MEANS it. I still think it was cheesy because I don't think it was right in this particular script. I wouldn't have been surprised if Anholt had winked at the camera.
Unintentionally cheesy...
(As an aside, Simon said "Maya and Tony admit their love for each other" -- Tony was the only one doing any admitting here. But then, what does Maya know about love? Discuss in 500 words or less, deadline 13/09/99.)
Good point. Then again Maya didn't exactly give him the brush off,did she? Something about "we don't have time to play with words..". Cheesy dialogue again though. Actually Emma,your suggestion as to discussing what Maya knows about love has a lot of merit. Any thoughts any one?
Rigs Up A Barrier" scenes were a tad tedious, as Simon said, but they fulfil the classic purpose of a build-up before the final confrontation and on viewing the episode again, they didn't bother me all that much.
I liked the addition of John Hug/Bill Fraser to Y2 and would have liked to see more development here. And yes we do see Sandra soing something other than passing out or screaming. But I still maintain that the Rigging The Barrier sequence was not to build tension but more to pad the episode out. And in any case,what did all that work achieve? Didn't stop the monster did it?
I mention our friend Freiberger, and I might just as well turn my attention to the actual story at this point. I certainly can't pretend that it's a stellar plot -- "Hero fights monster" is a theme that reaches back to Greek mythology and beyond, and as the theme goes, Freddie isn't going to win any prizes for original execution. And yet: I must have seen dozens of monster rampages as a child, and this was the one that stuck in my mind.
And in my mind too. As a 14 year old anyway! (And I'm not being facetious here) I'm just making the point that as we get older we change and our tastes change too. Sometimes for better and sometimes for poorer.
- First, you notice there's something wrong and you identify the manifestation of the problem (in this case, an unknown monster -- I'll spare you the details of what I have to fight :).
Sounds intriguing!
- Well, after that, you need to get creative (lethal injections, chlorine gas, or better still, both at the same time -- btw, Maya's the one who administers the injection, Simon, if you're interested ;)
Yeah sorry. When I wrote my review I was in a hurry and never made this explicit.
- Maya's sudden realisation at the end is the sort of forehead slapping moment that anyone hopes for at a point like this ("what do you mean you installed a scanner?!?"). It's a logical deduction based on the result of all the previous tests, but it just needed a spark to trigger it off. Maybe all Maya needed was a kiss... Tony should bear that in mind.
Hhmm...maybe we all should bear it in mind :-)
Did that all make sense? Ah well, at least I'm trying to explain why I like this episode so much [....]
Yes it did. You remind me of why I liked it 22 years ago (apart from wild mindless action). Its just that I can't summon the same enthusiasm now for it. Which is odd when I consider that I still enjoy RULES OF LUTON!
Well, I think I've said just about everything I wanted to say, and probably a lot more than the episode deserves. [....]
No. I get sick and tired of people who slag off Y2 in general and Freiberger in particular. Your comments are very thoughtful. As I've always said,SPACE 1999 was primarily an enertainment show,not Shakespeare. THE BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP are not Y2 at its best though to me. But even so I still watch them more than *certain* Y1 episodes that I could mention.....:-)
Simon
From: Ed Eckhardt (eckhardthome@web44tv.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:25:58 -0400 (EDT) Subj: Space1999: Hello! / Maya knowing love...
First off, I just joined the group today and starting recieving letters. First letter I got asked for opinions about if Maya was capable of even knowing what love is. I definitely believe so. She had a mother and father! On the subject of her father she "loved" him so much, she stayed with him on Psychon when everyone else fled (her brother included) and destruction of the planet was immient. Refer to episodes "The Metamorph" and "The Rules of Luton" for more info.
Just a thought...
Ed
P.S. Boy, this is fun! It's great to have people to talk about this show with again!
From: Atomic Possum (atomicpossum@toast4tag.net) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:38:27 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
My affection for Maya again has its roots in my childhood. It is very rare, even today, to have a strong female character who is not overtly sexual. Her romantic association with Verdeschi notwithstanding, Maya was flat as a pancakeand didn't go around the station wearing some slinky alien get-up.
I think the major charm of Maya, what is responsible for the likability of the character with so many people, even those who say they don't like Maya in concept, is her somewhat superior aspect, her quality of being superior without arrogance. She seems somehow far above the Alphans in intelligence and grace, yet seems warmly natural and likeable. Whether this is due to the character herself or Catherine Schell ( I suspect the latter), it does seem to come across.
As for overtly sexual, does it bother you that while not a large-breasted bimbo, her character still needs to be justified with romantic interest? That she can't stand on her own without also being Tony's girlfriend? This is a fairly common problem with television, particularly traditionally 'male' genres such as action or science-fiction.
(Personally, I take more of the view that she likes Tony much like she might like a puppy, but that he really isn't on enough of her level for her to actually be 'in love' with him. Or maybe I'm jealous. :-) )
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:43:17 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
I liked the epilogue in FORCE OF LIFE, but more than just emphasising that there are many things they don't understand as they are in deep space, Victor's comment about the birth of a star or a metamorphosis of some kind is the thing I remember the best about this sequence, and, in fact, the evolutionary aspect of life, evolution perhaps being the force of life, was the point I felt as an essence of the Johnny Byrne script.
In THE BETA COULD the cloud does not seem to have any metaphorical aspect to it, except, as I suggested earlier, it perhaps works as Freiberger's symbol of the writer, either himselft, but perhaps more likely the foggy British writers he didn't understand all that much, who control the characters of the play.
Tony and Maya shooting at the cloud would then read as Freiberger fighting a culture of writers and customs he finds totally bizarre and hopeless. At least in this context I think the scene works well, and reads perhaps as the best personal insight on Freiberger since his assumed discussion of childhood memories in THE RULES OF LUTON.
RULES OF LUTON and BETA COULD does not seem to discuss ideas in the same manner as Johnny Byrne or Chris Penfold's episodes, so I believe we have to be a little more daring in our interpretations on the Woodgrove episodes. If they ideed say anything except "use every pragmatical mean for survival at all cost" the key must be in understanding the life and thoughts of Fred Freiberger, a man who obviously lived successfully by this philosophy as a writer and producer for the American TV network.
Again, I speak not from the usual standpoint of a Freddie basher,but I disagree here Petter. The dialogue was terrible to my mind....sorry about that Fred,but facts are facts!
Freiberger uses his dialogue sequences sparingly, and there is little in the dialogue that give more insight that the actual running-around does, I think. Nevertheless, I do in fact enjoy the dialogue as it opens up for more indirect interpretations of his "survival at all cost" philosophy.
Even if one feels that Year One got worse and worse as ITC New York meddled and the series sunk to new levels with Year Two, it is difficult not to admire Freiberger for his persuading manners. As Ronald Reagan said, you can't argue with success.
A man, such as Freiberger, who lives by a motto of "survival at all costs" is perhaps not the first one to give up, no matter if his ideas and taste is bunk.
Well,there were some poor episodes in Y2. Buth there were in Y1 as well. I disagree that Y2 was junk. This is a generalisation. Surely this is a matter of opinion!
A matter of opinion, yes. And even if I fancy Y1 over Y2, there are instances in Y2 where one catches glimpses of the good things from the previous year. I understand you didn't like AB CHRYSALIS all that much, Simon, but this was one of the episodes I felt had some more substance to it, an episode that could easily have been presented in the Year One format with Victor speaking Maya's lines. The same could be said about NEW ADAM/NEW EVE, another interesting episode.
I also like the Rainer Werner Fassbinder style of SEEDS OF DESTRUCTION, complete with the typical Fassbinder mirror photography and play on domination and subjection.
I don't think CATACOMBS was any classic. I quite enjoyed it,that's about all. IMHO,Terpiloff was a hell of a lot more at home in Y1 than in Y2. In year 1 he wrote some great episodes.....
To me Terpiloff seemed like the odd man off in Year One, writing very inconsistently with the rest of the group, resulting in some of the least watchable episodes of the season. Seeing Terpiloff's work in the context of Year Two is a very different experience though, feeling that this was exactly the right kind of format for him, and had his Year One episodes been delayed for Year Two they would have become much more congruent and fitting with the series.
As there are some who, surprisingly, put episodes like THE INFERNAL MACHINE and DEATH'S OTHER DOMINION on top of their Year One ranking, I must add that we are speaking personal opinions here. Nevertheless, as with RING AROUND THE MOON and other "controversial" issues, I don't think I'm alone in this case either. Quite to the contrary perhaps I may be closer to the opinion of the silent majority. At least Pierre Fageolle, in his excellent book on COSMOS 1999, explains similar views, holding THE INFERNAL MACHINE as one of the most boring episodes ever.
Perhaps so,but from what you have told us about Fageolle in previous posts,I would be surprised if he viewed the episode as anything else. But isn't this the chap who said/hinted that Lew Grade had written an episodes under a psuedonym or something? So I don't think I shall put more store in what he thinks!
We all make mistakes. Apparently Fageolle was no more aware of Lew Schwarz being a prolific writer of BBC comedy than I was. It was a bit sad actually, as THE MARK OF ARCHANON, a rather weak entry in my opinion, could perhaps have made some more sense if it turned out to have been written by Lew Grade. This was, however, not the case.
But just to be fair, I have the greatest respect for John Kenneth Muir and his excellent book "Exploring Space 1999"...yet I don't agree with *his* assessment of NEW ADAM NEW EVE either! I thought that episode was one of the top 5 of Y2.....
Muir seems like a nice chap, but his opinions are generally quite the opposite of mine. He seems to have an obsession with defending SPACE:1999 off against STAR TREK from what I can see, and most of his episode analysis seldom dig deeper than pointing out nits and surface problems with the plots.
In my opinion the type of analysis presented by Muir is somewhat slightly below the average on this list. That is perhaps not much disapproving of Muir, as the level on this list is quite good really, at least according to my taste, but it seems to me he has spent to much time discussing with trekkers instead of SPACE:1999 enthusiasts.
That's right. Freiberger has gone on record and said as much. He said that the term "hack writer" had a stigma attached to it that was undeserved,as it was tough to keep to a formula-type show and within strictly laid down guidelines. And he's correct.
Yes. I admire him for his commitment to the work, although I think his influence on SPACE:1999 totally spoiled the show.
Petter
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi4tag.no) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:13:42 +0000 Subj: Re: Space1999: Beta Cloud/End of Eternity
Balor is a character that held points of view, had a mission, had reasons for the things he did, and could put all that into the episode. He was a threat for what he wanted, for why he wanted it, and because there was a strong intelligence and cunning behind him. He had to be outsmarted, yet humored until that could be accomplished.
Yet it is interesting to note Johnny Byrne's feelings for END OF ETERNIY as of being one of the weaker episodes as he feels motivation in the case of Balor is not clear enough, well Byrne stated this in some interview at least.
Personally I find END OF ETERNITY a very good episode, at least the first three acts. The beginning of act IV where John Koenig asks "how does one stop a murder who cannot be killed" is not very inspired, I think, it suddenly reduces the episode from high level psychologcal drama to BETA CLOUD type run-around.
On the other hand, RICHARD III wasn't all that much explained neither in Shakespeare's early play, and yet it is one of the bards most popular ones.
To me END OF ETERNITY works much like RICHARD III, Balor manipulating his way through Alpha in order to gain power, and is as such a very sinister and interesting episode, masterfully executed by Peter Bowles and Ray Austin, both in top form.
The enemy in THE BETA CLOUD is a non-entity, I feel. There is not very much information and not do we care very much for either the cloud nor the robot except as threats against life on Alpha.
It is an interesting thing to compare Woodgrove and Byrne, and I agree there are common features in the stories, indeed there are common features in many of the Byrne and Woodgrove stories, Freiberger's obsession with survival compares nicely with Byrne's thoughts about environment and society I think.
As mentioned before, I think FORCE OF LIFE is an episode that has more common points with THE BETA CLOUD, at least in the psychological points that Jon drives at, even though the external threat on Alpha and the indestruable enemy in END OF ETERNITY also share common themes.
Jon wrote:
And Petter, I disagree about FORCE OF LIFE being just as thin as BETA CLOUD--FORCE OF LIFE was, simply, a mystery, and that formed its value as a story--an examination of the unknown, something that empasized man's insignificance and inability to face the powers that exist in the universe. The mystery in the BETA CLOUD simply left a very two-dimensional conflict unjustified and hollow....it was an omission, not an enhancement.
Rather than saying that FORCE OF LIFE was as bad as BETA COULD, I was thinking more in lines of if one looked upon BETA CLOUD more like FORCE OF LIFE, which is a very good episode in my opinion, it will perhaps make more sense.
David Lerda and other have been critizising BETA CLOUD for not having the motivation of the Cloud better developed. Personally I disagree with that, feeling that with an episode like FORCE OF LIFE it is obvious that there is no need for any further explanation of the space phenomenon in order to make a good episode.
The weak points about THE BETA CLOUD is, on the other hand I feel, that it's "survival of the fittest" theme, not unlike the evolution theme of FORCE OF LIFE perhaps, is not being developed beneath the very superficial.
Even if philosophy of Freiberger is efficient, it is extremely simplistic and we never get more insight after a few minutes of running around the fighting. We should perhaps be happy that he never wrote more than three episodes for the series, as they would look tediously the same I suppose, although there are minor differences between RULES OF LUTON, BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP.
Personally I like THE BETA CLOUD the best of the three, but we still haven analysed SPACE WARP properly yet, so there may be some insights to the universe of Freiberger yet unknown.
Petter
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:24:40 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Hello Simon
Glad to know someone waded through my ramblings -- I was sick at home with a cold, so I thought I might as well explain *exactly* what I liked about the ep, in as much detail as I could muster!
Well said. I have no complaints regarding Koenig in Y1 (but I think Landau's high standard of acting helped) but other characters were woefully developed and written. Helena Russell had no real personality or screen precence.
No one in Y1 really caught my attention. I paid attention to Koenig and Russell, not only because of the romantic association, but also because of the quality of Landau's acting (and Bain's, when she got a chance). I was glad they brought Alan back in Y2 (there just aren't that many Australians in Space!), Paul was okay, for all he got to do, I didn't like Victor (eek, heresy on this list, but what can I say?) and all the other secondary characters struck me as so many bits of cardboard. Maybe they stuck around a few centuries and joined the Enterprise D.
but I still thought he was an improvement on Morrow. The introduction of Maya was a great move. I neither believe she was intended as a STAR TREK rip-off or as a "Hanna Barbera" character(and IMO that phrase is starting to appear over-used).
Well, she could have been intended as both, but the point is that the result was successful well beyond any such ambitions. The combination of Catherine Schell (one cannot overestimate that woman's talent! ;) and some sparks of good writing and directing are what make Maya much more than some comic-strip imitation.
Freiberger successfully made something of the characters and that alone was an improvement over Y1.
Agreed. I also feel I got to know a lot more about Carolyn Powell, who was only in one ep, than about Paul Morrow, who was in about 20.
Tony Verdeschi is many things...but a monster?
ROFL! :D
The epilogue was one of the best bits and probably the best dialogue as it was CHARACTER DRIVEN. My God, I've *heard* exchanges like that myself. (Well actually been part of one I suppose...)It didn't sound like phoney dialogue. And that certainly appears in some Y2 humour!
It does help that the epilogue was given to two talented actors. I re-read the script before Brian sent me the episode, and I remember reading the epilogue and thinking -- "I thought that was a lot funnier than it sounds here...". Well, of course, it *was* in the actual episode given Schell and Anholt's tones and mannerisms.
It *is* a bit of a classic reset button situation -- a golden rule of TV series seems to be Never Let The Regulars Get Too Involved. So if they fall in love with a non-regular character, the love interest will die/leave/fall in love with someone else by the end of the episode, and if the love interest is another regular character, then it all turns out to be a dream, or they say they didn't really mean it, or they agree they should just stay friends in order to preserve their working relationship... :)
OTOH, having said that, Space:1999 was one of the very first shows I ever saw in which the regulars had any kind of durable relationship that developped in the course of the show. Whatever the details of the Maya/Tony relationship, it was certainly mentioned as a fait accompli in several episodes (right from The Exiles onwards), and it is pretty obvious Koenig and Russell were involved in Y2, if not right back in Y1. That's something I had to wait a good 20 years -- until Deep Space Nine -- to see in any scifi show I watched.
Interestingly enough, we don't get any "getting together" episodes in S1999. If The Beta Cloud is supposed to be Maya and Tony's first kiss (not that I think it was), then what the fiddle was going on in New Adam, New Eve? Makes you wonder what's been going on behind the scenes -- anyone know of some good fanfic about this? <g>
I liked the addition of John Hug/Bill Fraser to Y2 and would have liked to see more development here. And yes we do see Sandra soing something other than passing out or screaming. But I still maintain that the Rigging The Barrier sequence was not to build tension but more to pad the episode out. And in any case,what did all that work achieve? Didn't stop the monster did it?
Rather a red herring like the superduper weapon in TNG's "The Best Of Both Worlds, part I". Great big build up and the thing just goes >fut<. OTOH, the barrier in The Beta Cloud did buy Tony those precious seconds to chat up Maya out of the blue. :)
Maybe all Maya needed was a kiss... Tony should bear that in mind.Hhmm...maybe we all should bear it in mind :-)
Maybe it enhances her Psychon powers... Maybe she has a little of Psyche in her and can absorb intelligence from those who touch her... Maybe that's why Tony becomes such a dufus when she's around...
was primarily an enertainment show,not Shakespeare. THE BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP are not Y2 at its best though to me.
Hey, all my positive comments were about The Beta Cloud -- I never said Space Warp was a best anything!
Emma
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:30:43 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Hello! / Maya knowing love...
First letter I got asked for opinions about if Maya was capable of even knowing what love is. I definitely believe so. She had a mother and father! On the subject of her father she "loved" him so much, she stayed with him on Psychon when everyone else fled (her brother included) and destruction of the planet was immient.
Heh. I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding here. I was refering to "love" in the context of Maya's relationship with Tony. Of course, she knows how to give affection, loyalty and other manifestations of love in general. But what does she know about romantic love?
I only have vague recollections of "All That Glisters", but I do remember someone mentioning that Maya was rather puzzled by Dave's flirting in that. And indeed, I don't get the impression she would have had many suitors on Psychon -- we were apparently invited to believe Maya and Mentor were the last Psychons on the planet. Under those circumstances, I would think her knowledge of romantic love (or, well, *sex*) would be purely theoretical.
Opinions?
Emma
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:27:09 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Jon wrote:
As for overtly sexual, does it bother you that while not a large-breasted bimbo, her character still needs to be justified with romantic interest? That she can't stand on her own without also being Tony's girlfriend? This is a fairly common problem with television, particularly traditionally 'male' genres such as action or science-fiction.
This is an interesting point, but as you mention, it is so common in scifi shows that I would end up not having much fun if I let it bother me each time! And quite frankly, as far as sexism goes, the mere fact that *Maya* is the clever one with the secret weapon is a refreshing change!
As to the love interest angle, I don't agree that Maya is only portrayed as Tony's love interest in the show. Rather, it seems as though Tony's character was created purely with a view to making Maya's life on board interesting. I do not for one minute agree with the view that *any* romantic involvement automatically weakens a female character, either. Girls like to have fun too! (little rant born of one too many arguments in Trek fandom ;)
Not, mind you, that Space:1999 is devoid of sexism by any means! In fact, that's one of the things that made me laugh in The Beta Cloud. The Cloud has just set up the plot for the episode, there's a monster on the rampage, and the only Alphans still on their feet are Tony, Maya, Bill and Sahn (okay, who's the S99 writer with an obsession for four-letter names??). Tony has to go to the airlock to try and fight the monster -- so who does he take with him? Bill. Right. He has a woman there who can turn into anything from a mouse to a 7-foot monster, and he orders her to the Medical Centre. Heh. <g>
(Personally, I take more of the view that she likes Tony much like she might like a puppy, but that he really isn't on enough of her level for her to actually be 'in love' with him. Or maybe I'm jealous. :-) )
I think that paradoxically, his streetwise, pretty straightforward personality is precisely what Maya would find attractive about him. He's good-looking, he's funny, and he is absolutely crazy about her. What more could a girl want? ;)
Emma
From: bjscannell@spry44net.com Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:29:56 -0500 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Hello Aplhans,
The score by Wadsworth makes the Ep a good one. The acting and dialogue I think are appropriate considering this action oriented plot. The cloud doesn't give up the details as they are another MUF, the Alphans are used to this, maybe this was a deliberate incorporation of Year One thinking. Wishful thinking on my part.
The Creature sounds like he says "ah F**k, uh" after Tony throws that tank at the family jewels, too funny. Should have used the Force Dave, or at least a cup.
This episode shows the Commposts being used as a valuable piece of equiptment when the Creature is decoyed.
The electrical barrier shots are interesting as they add to the suspense, I liked how it was set up.
The entire Laser vs. Cloud sequence could have been left on the cutting room floor but again the music helps out alot. The effect looks like projected light on the cloud, A model would have been a better choice.
As a kid, I remember my surprise to learn the Creature was a machine and the finale with the Bee in the head scenes is presented and executed well.
Say what you will on this episode but our 5 year old says "it was a cool show" .
IMHO,
Barry
From: "Brian Dowling" (hellion@easy44net.co.uk) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:58:45 +0100 Subj: (Fwd) Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Hi folks,
Simon wrote:
Well said. I have no complaints regarding Koenig in Y1 (but I think Landau's high standard of acting helped) but other characters were woefully developed and written. Helena Russell had no real personality or screen precence. Morrow did not have much of a character,etc. People did not seem to talk as "individuals".
That, to me, is why Year 1 gets a lot of flak. Aside from Martin Landau, Barry Morse and Nick Tate, the rest of the main characters were left incomplete (IMHO) with just the occasional glimpse of past history, as in Voyager's Return and a moment of Paul's pre-Alpha history.
I got a little bit tired of Verdeschi's brash wise-ass character but I still thought he was an improvement on Morrow. The introduction of Maya was a great move. I neither believe she was intended as a STAR TREK rip-off or as a "Hanna Barbera" character(and IMO that phrase is starting to appear over-used). Freiberger successfully made something of the characters and that alone was an improvement over Y1.
I don't think we saw enough action from Paul, whereas we see plenty from Tony, and this gave his character a chance to develop. Maya was, for me, the major improvement on Y1, giving the series a character which was different from anything they and any sci fi series had encountered before. Credit to Catherine Schell for making Maya such an intelligent and well acted character. If a Y2 story was remade today, what's the betting Maya would end up being played as some blonde bimbo with Tony being "the man" to sort things out... *Yuck!*
We all know (well, apart from any new folk on the list) Fred Freiberger's background, and the remit he was working under. As I have watched the Y2 tapes (and I've watched them all in the last two weeks), I have come to appreciate more the character that is Y2. Yes, it has its ups and downs, but so does every series. I think Fred stuck to his remit well, even though it may not be everybody's cup of tea. We can waste our time trying to psychoanalyse the reasons behind episodes, characters, names or whatever, or we can constructively discuss the episodes and argue our opinions. I go for the latter.
Emma wrote:
Who was it on the List called her "foxy"?! She was sexy without being overtly sexual. Also she could project a nice air of innocence. All credit to that great actress Catherine Schell too: much of it was down to her...
*Brian raises his hand...* Me, miss! Maya is not overtly sexual, but when you have a weakness for long, dark hair... The difference with Maya's character was that she was not there for decoration and to scream or make coffee at the appointed time, unlike your average Doctor Who companion. In many respects she was similar to Zoe Herriot, played by Wendy Padbury in the last year of Pat Troughton's tenure as The Doctor - intelligent, cute, capable of more than just screaming or making coffee, and often being the one who solves the problem. The main difference was that Maya didn't do that much screaming - Zoe did.
later. I just have to add that Catherine Schell is simply a delight to hear and see -- even when she's being chased by a monster.
Oh yes!!!!!
The epilogue was one of the best bits and probably the best dialogue as it was CHARACTER DRIVEN. My God, I've *heard* exchanges like that myself. (Well actually been part of one I suppose...)It didn't sound like phoney dialogue. And that certainly appears in some Y2 humour!
Tony does get some good lines now and then, though his "Take a couple of nuclear physicists with you just in case" to Alan in Bringers Of Wonder (and there happen to be two there as well!!) has to be a contender for naffest dialogue in the series.
I recall when I bought the tape and played it at home, I got distracted for some time. When I came back I saw the creature and said in jest to my housemates "Egad! 'Tis Dave Prowse in a rubber suit!". I was stunned when I found out I was right. And one can only imagine the pain Dave felt as that fire extinguisher found its target... Ouchie! That must have hurt... :-(
And yes, I did actually say that line.
I liked the addition of John Hug/Bill Fraser to Y2 and would have liked to see more development here. And yes we do see Sandra soing something other than passing out or screaming. But I still maintain that the Rigging The Barrier sequence was not to build tension but more to pad the episode out. And in any case,what did all that work achieve? Didn't stop the monster did it?
I liked this episode because we see more of Fraser and Sandra. I believe that there is a darker side to Sandra which we haven't seen (it's always the cutesy quiet ones you have to watch... :-), but that's for a different thread... It shouldn't be the guest stars and main characters who get all the action, it's helpful to the whole product to see other folk around the place and getting involved in situations.
- First, you notice there's something wrong and you identify the manifestation of the problem (in this case, an unknown monster -- I'll spare you the details of what I have to fight :).
Out! Out! You demons of stupidity! I've got a postcard of this Dogbert cartoon on my phone, and it occasionally gets pointed to. No doubt Emma goes through the same... :-)
It's a straight-forward romp backed by good acting and good effects, and, probably more importantly from my pov, it's the only
And good music as well - Derek's score here helps the episode go along. Without it, I'm not sure how bad it could have ended up.
No. I get sick and tired of people who slag off Y2 in general and Freiberger in particular. Your comments are very thoughtful. As I've always said,SPACE 1999 was primarily an enertainment show,not Shakespeare. THE BETA CLOUD and SPACE WARP are not Y2 at its best though to me. But even so I still watch them more than *certain* Y1 episodes that I could mention.....:-)
I'll raise my glass of warm milk to that one! Over the course of this whole exercise, I have found elements and stories in both seasons that I like, albeit for different reasons. I don't think either of the seasons can be written off wholesale as total crap, as neither season deserves that treatment.
Brian Dowling
I find it interesting that some of these "empty, shoot 'em up, meaningless" year two episodes generate some of the most discussion.
I also wonder if it's no accident that Freddie wrote three scripts that acted as either half of the double ups, or as a vehicle for the Landau's vacation? He is hard to go all one way or the other on, because though these are quick knock offs (I think) he still can put in stuff we like (the discussion in "Rules"; the tag in "Beta".)
From: jcg@vh4tag.net Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:00:36 -0400 Subj: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
What is this core that Alpha doesn't have more then one?
It's silly after awhile that every door explodes when forced open.
Tony Anholt always sounds a little strange when he is doing dialog to a creature that doesn't know English. "Who...are...you?" Very stillted rather then slow and precise.
Seeing glimpses of the eagle cockpit behind the creature they just stuck up some vague looking electronic wall to be the front of the cockpit...and no windows.
More dubbing in Medical Center. What was wrong with the audio during filming of this series?
Tony has the creature locked in the vacuum chamber, and he opens the door? Damn!
Interesting Maya is waiting for permission or a crisis to escape Medical Center, since she could have changed and gone into the vents anytime.
I like year two Helena when she is out of it (Journey to Where, Beta Cloud) and she still can spout the medical technical stuff.
Does anybody think Tony's love declaration comes at an odd place, or does it fit in with the genre?
Once again, the temp would not drop five degrees the second the core is removed.
I too liked the tag. Humorous yes, but a little more real then ususal, and I like Tony's laying back with his arm behind his head feeling very satisfied.
In the credits, the creature is billed as "Space/Kreno Animal." Kreno? What's that mean?
From: jcg@vh4tag.net Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:47:46 -0400 Subj: Space1999: Travel tube doors
In The Beta Cloud I saw at least three instances where the travel tubes had double doors.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Triggers a thread on Travel Tube Doors (and some other technology).]
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:12:55 -0500 Subj: Space1999: Love, Maya, and Tony
At 05:55 PM 09/15/98 +0100, Ariana wrote:
(As an aside, Simon said "Maya and Tony admit their love for each other" -- Tony was the only one doing any admitting here. But then, what does Maya know about love? Discuss in 500 words or less, deadline 13/09/99.)
Oh yikes. Only 500 words?? ;-) Actually, to be brief...
Someone pointed out the love she had for her family. Not the same thing, I know, but Mentor seems to have raised his daughter very well, to be a warm, intelligent, friendly, humorous person, which would certainly be an attractant to most of the opposite sex anyway.
The apparent lack of young men her age, during the "teenage" years (I mean the same phase in her life, even if counting by different measures), would of course be an issue; but maybe that's part of why it took her and Tony so long to really start connecting on deeper emotional levels.
For once, the "log," with its 342-2409 range, which seems too long for most things, actually seems to make some sense in this one area. In a sense, Maya starts out like a child when it comes to love. Tony has a childish streak mixed with a somewhat macho nature. Maya shows emotion well, but doesn't put her personal feelings into words that often. Tony almost never puts his feelings into words, at least when it comes to love.
So in different ways, both have to grow up in these areas, learning to feel and finally speak deeper romantic love. They keep their basic natures, but have to learn new things as well.
That's my perception, anyway, and the short version of that. I'd probably need the 13/09/99 deadline otherwise!
Philippa Sidle, though not on the list now, had very different feelings about how Tony and Maya's relationship progressed, which you can read in her fan fiction. We both saw them as having problems communicating their feelings, and having some immature aspects to them; but since Maya seemed to have no prior opportunity for romantic relationships while Tony did, Philippa had Tony taking much more advantage of the naive Maya. Interesting and (often very) surprising reading.
David Welle
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:27:09 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Gosh, it takes me a long time to write these analyses. Back on last Sunday, though, I was thinking of starting out my "Beta Cloud" statements with something like... 'For all of its flaws, including questionable plot points, erratic dialog, and rather straightforward and even simple theme, I seem to have a soft spot for this episode, even though I'm not entirely sure why.'
Simon certainly stated a lot of these problems a few days later, many of which I agree were flaws. Yet I also found myself agreeing with a lot of what Emma (a.k.a. "Ariana") said in her note.
The episode is what I just said before, and I agree with much of what Simon stated as well, yet for a "run around the base and try to destroy the monster" episode, it works remarkably well. It's not not tightly plotted, the cloud's motivation in wanting the life support unit takes some suspension of disbelief (or requires a better cover story), yet it is great fun as a straight-forward action episode. I don't mind straight-forward entertainment now and then. "The Taybor" was very good as comic relief, and "The Beta Cloud" was very good, albeit not great, as "pure" action (whatever that means).
Okay, to the episode itself.
First, there's the title. It still sounds silly and meaninglessly arbitrary, but my original question has peaked my own curiosity: is it the second "space cloud" they've encountered? I can only remember "Collision Course" as having a "cloud" before then, while "Seance Spectre" is yet to follow. I'd be surprised if this is true, though, and even more surprised if it was intentional, because Freiberger only saw eight Y1 episodes before starting Y2. (Maybe he watched more Y1 after that point; but I've never heard that, and don't see how he'd have the time if they had to rush on Y2 anyway).
The so-named cloud appears, but one declaration is odd: "range constant." It appears out of thin space (which I can accept in general, considering how many things do just that in SF), and is even moving along with them, while looking like it is expanding. Already, it seems somewhat illusionary, or else their scanners are being affected, which becomes the case soon enough. It can sort of seem explained, yet sort of seem hokey at the same time.
People start fainting, as if their systems are being interfered with in a way not too dissimilar to the computers. The cloud persists for days, and soon almost everyone has been affected, except for Maya, Tony, Sandra, and a progressively less number of Alphans, as if some are immune, some only partially. (The reasons are never clear on any of this.)
An Eagle was sent out to the cloud, but returns with no life signs, while still seeming to be under perfect control, which leads the commander person to apparently assume the pilot is on board and the scanners are on the blink. The pilot is not on board, however, but some creature is.
Various weapons don't stop it, and when some Alphans (foolishly) attack it themselves, they are only injured or killed. Tony orders Maya and Sandra to medical center. As a few people pointed out, why didn't Tony have Maya try an attack as another form? The first several times I saw it, it never seemed surprising; then when people here pointed it out, I wondered why. I could see why Maya objected, and I liked her objection, about wanting to be with Tony. Why, they're in love, whether or not they've admitted it to each other (or even themselves), and are trying to protect each other! Maya wants to protect Tony by staying with him, and he wants to protect her by sending her to a point of (relative) safety.
Also, remember from "The Rules of Luton," where Maya wanted to try attacking, but John held her back, fearing it could tear her apart. Maybe this thought was lingering in her mind. Maybe Tony heard about this or realized she didn't have infinite strength.
Tony voice-locking the doors, although technically a good idea on its own, does break continuity (and plain old simplicity) in ignoring the Y1 fact of the commlocks being coded for each person, with individual authorizations, which could have presumably been altered for this situation. Maybe a "justification" for this little (but eventually irritating, for how often Tony had to do this) blunder could be made up, but I don't feel inclined to try in this case.
I liked Emma's analysis of the "haphazard scientific method" applied. The various efforts at attempting to destroy the monster seemed very, er... human. Like starting with the usual methods (shooting it), then seemingly sure-fire methods (vacuum chamber ought to kill), then getting creative (lethal injection and chlorine gas), then trying to attack the original source (cloud).
It took a little bit of thought on my part, regarding the chlorine gas. After all, a vacuum chamber failed, so why couldn't it live through poisonous gas. On the other hand, chlorine can "burn" tissue too, as in "AB Chrysalis," so it was worth a try. Desperation does work in ways like that: throwing any idea you can at the problem.
Emma, do you work in programming or technical support of computer software or hardware? You peppered your note with phrases that sound awfully familiar. I'm a programmer/analyst myself, and, concerned with quality have to deal with the frustration of bugs that appear in our code, or filter up from other departments. Sometimes, a solution can seem obvious yet fail, and sometimes it can be the desperate attempt, which seems stupid and doomed to uselessness, that often proves the breakthrough.
So on other levels, I can empathize with what the Alphans are going through. It seems inevitable that such a situation would come sooner or later. Sure, it's an old type of story, but S19 does a good version of it.
In all of this, Maya has left Medical Center by crawling through a vent tube, as a mouse. Yes, I wondered why she just didn't become Tony. I liked someone's (sorry, forgot the orginator's name) idea that she was uncomfortable doing so. She actually turned into Alphans very rarely, with Helena and Cranston being the only ones I can think of now, and Tony is a whole other case besides. So that may not have been the first thing that came to mind; but rather went ahead in the rush, doing what she so often did. Sometimes, in desperate situations, people do that, rushing ahead with the first thing that comes to mind. I'm not sure.
When Maya does come to Tony's rescue, she succeeds in that, but then becomes in need of rescue herself. This does, curiously enough, point to some continuity with "Rules of Luton," and is also perhaps just the thing Tony feared.
Maya also finds herself unable to turn into the creature, which baffles her, but at first, only for the little time that she has before they once again have to rush along, distracted by another problem.
Oh, the bit with firing at the cloud. Definitely the most tediously hokey piece of this episode. This despite the fact I eventually figured the whole "diamond" thing was just the cloud's way of wasting the Alphans' time. There was mass in the cloud, but the light show was put on to draw off Tony and Maya. As such, it worked, but I still don't like that scene, other than how it showed Maya and Tony working as a team.
Emma pointed out that she liked Tony and Maya, and that this episode featured them the most. I wish there had been other episodes besides this one, but this was a good romp, and seeing them in the thick of the action probably helped make it better, or at least more fun, than it probably would have been otherwise. Catherine Schell and Tony Anholt had the right chemistry in this episode, and I'm not talking about just the romantic scenes, but the whole general tone between them throughout the episode.
But speaking of chemistry, what about the main two romantic scenes? Well, I liked how the pressure drove both to finally admit, out loud, their feelings to each other. His line about Psychon being his favorite planet makes me cringe a little, yet doesn't love sometimes bring out cheesy sounding lines, especially under pressure? So I actually find myself giving Tony points for one of the more original "come on" lines around. :-) It still sounds a bit corny in the "light of day," but Maya obviously doesn't care, except that he's wasting precious seconds on words. Sounds so... human -- both of them. It works.
Heck, probably everyone says some things, in the rest of day-to-day life, that they'd like to take back and reword, for sounding silly the first time. I certainly do. Along the same lines, people often waffle about with romantic stuff as well, during and after the fact.
Indeed, Tony takes back what he said, in that he later calls it "wild garbage." Ouch, poor Maya. These two, as Philippa once pointed out, don't communicate their emotions very well. I suppose part of it (all of it?) is Tony trying to act the "macho man" again, slipping back to his sort of smug self-assuredness, trying to smooth over the "damage" his admission may have caused, only to find out that she really did seem to feel like that.
Too bad the producers (and I'm including Anderson, Lew Grade, and the rest of the higher ups, as well as Freiberger) weren't so worried about keeping the episodes as separate, self-contained units, for the sake of possible episode shuffling (which did happen). They could have better shown how this put off Maya for awhile. Actually, though, one could argue it took awhile to patch things up. I'd be getting ahead of the episodes, though.
In between the two romantic scenes, the creature is finally defeated. The clues have been piling up until it finally clicks between Tony and Maya. No life signs, vacuum doesn't kill, chlorine doesn't do a thing, poison is ineffective, lasers don't hurt it, intense electrical shocks only puts it off for a few seconds, and Maya can't transform into it.
Sure, the evidence does seem overwhelming, but it's overwhelming at the end, and I still remember not figuring it out until near the end myself. Knowing what I know now, I of course can see it all coming on this viewing. Of course, this points out the episode is most effective the first time around, but that's true of most episodes, though some seem to get better on multiple viewings, unwrapping the layers. There aren't really many layers here, of course, but like I said before, it's a fun episode.
Maya could have gotten herself killed for the second time, this time from being fried up inside the creature itself, when she transforms into an insect and disrupts the circuitry inside it. Instead of bugs in the software, it's bugs on the hardware. :-)
In various stories, I like the incongruity of something small destroying the massive. Cold virus in "War of the Worlds," for example. This time, it's a bee that brings down the beast, although not before the latter inflicts more injury, this time breaking a couple of Tony's bones.
At 05:55 PM 09/15/98 +0100, Ariana wrote:
More importantly perhaps, I do have to say I like Tony and Maya. I like Y1 well enough for its scifi content, but none of the characters really grabbed my attention, so as far as I'm concerned, Freddie's changes were spot-on. Someone else on the list cheered when Koenig was written out of "Catacombs", and although I wouldn't go that far, I have to admit the fact it was Tony and Maya running around, and not Koenig and Russell, probably helps rather than hinders The Beta Cloud in my esteem.
Absolutely! I agree on all points.
Character concerns is what hurt my opinion of much of Y1, especially centering around the character of Helena. The themes were almost always interesting to me, the plots seemed erratic (from the great to the poor), and the characters were, well, could have been a lot more developed. Victor was my favorite, John worked well enough, and Alan was likeable. The rest, I hardly "knew," or had trouble accepting (especially Helena).
FF improved the character situation a lot. Though far from perfect, it was a vast improvement IMO. Helena was a lot better, for one thing. John was still good as the stolid but affable, and sometimes furious commander. Alan continued well as a character. Maya was an absolutely fabulous addition. Tony worked out very well, especially as a foil for Maya (or is it the other way around? :-) Five consistently strong characters in Y2, instead of three relatively strong characters and some weak characters dragging them down in Y1. I know everyone's got different opinions, but that's just the way I see it.
Plots improved to some degree. Science (even if "fictional science") seemed a lot better. Themes admittedly suffered a little; but I find a great deal of fascination, and plenty of room for analysis, in Y2. The main thing is that the triple of character, plot, and theme was much more in "balance." (Hmmm, "A Matter of Balance," maybe? Sorry. :-) I find poor characters can cripple a plot, and poor plot can cripple characters. This didn't happen as often in Y2 as it did in Y1, as far as I feel.
The plot in this episode certainly wasn't the greatest, but watching them run around the base trying to fight the beast and failing at every turn until the end, was good in its own way. Freiberger's skills as a writer weren't the greatest. He's far from Shakespeare, and even demonstrates a remarkable redundancy in choosing "run around" plots.
"Rules of Luton" was one. It had its moments, and one very good scene, but got to be tedious.
"The Beta Cloud" was another, but I felt this one worked out far better.
Looking ahead just briefly, "Space Warp" was half made up of a "run around" plot. It lands between "Luton" and "Cloud" in my opinion, perhaps because of Maya being the monster in that case.
The episodes did have various differences, so the redundancy is only partial. Like I said in the beginning, I do have something of a soft spot for "Beta Cloud," and "Space Warp" wasn't bad, but otherwise, I'm not terribly impressed by Freiberger as a writer. Besides not seeming to have the best skill for it in S19, there is the double duty problem. I don't think many producers do well attempting to write. B5's JMS is one of the exceptions that sticks out most in my mind as being great at both.
Freiberger was better at producing, IMO. I realize some will find it strange that "better" and "Freiberger" can be mixed in the same sentence, but for whatever it's worth, I think the majority of his work improved the series, while some of it did not.
Petter keeps insisting that Freiberger's "Charles Woodgrove" episodes are the best episodes to study in regard to Freiberger's intent for the series. I'm not sure about that. Producing and writing are usually two very different jobs, and skill (or lack thereof) in one does not necessarily imply skill (or lack thereof) in another. It's like many areas of work. To simplify, some people are great with theory, but have little ability to apply it to "real world" problems. Others are have little ability to theorize, but can take theory and construct something from it. Both groups of people have their place, but the jobs are different, with only partial overlap.
Or to take the rather lofty approach of my last sentence, and turn it into something more concrete.... I may be great with writing (please note that I say "may" :-), but I doubt I'd ever want to try producing. Okay, I'm not into writing TV or movie scripts, so it's probably not the best comparison.
The issue with FF, and the partial doubt I have in Petter's statements, is that while the "Woodgrove" stories do form a sample of Freiberger's approaches, it's a contaminated sample. What I mean is that we do not know Freiberger, at least in S19, as a writer, but rather as a producer who took some time from an already cramped schedule to write (maybe more like "dash off") a couple of the episodes. We do not know what FF's writing would have been like in S19 if he had just been dedicated to writing, as the rest of the series' writers. Maybe it would have been better, or maybe he would have overcooked things more. Hard to say.
I agree with Petter, though, to the degree that these stories thus become more "pure" Freiberger, in some senses, but even then, knowing something of the harsh schedule Y2 was on makes it hard to separate what would have been the same regardless, and what came down to rushed work.
Most of the cases where I see producers writing episodes are for the pilots, season premieres, or one of the first few episodes of a season. These situations to me are much clearer examples of the producer laying out the direction of the series, especially given that they have had months, either in first creating the series or during the "summer" hiatus, to craft those first episodes.
Freiberger had no chance at this, and his episodes were scattered in the middle of the series, under a hectic schedule. My analsysis skills aren't sufficient to correlate any real meaning out of this situation as far as things go. On one hand, I could argue the episodes were Freiberger as he was, nothing more or nothing less. On the other, I could argue the episodes were under a rushed schedule, by a producer who tried writing in the middle of the season, and got left as rather bare bones, without enough time to better flesh them out.
Still, as far as things went, "The Beta Cloud" turned out well, though not without problems.
Ironically, I'm glad Freiberger didn't write the first episode of Y2. I love "The Metamorph" just the way it is. I liked Johnny Bryne's story. I realize it was rewritten to include Maya, and it sounded like a rather unpleasant thing to have to do, but it turned out an excellent story as it happened, at least IMO.
My affection for Maya again has its roots in my childhood. It is very rare, even today, to have a strong female character who is not overtly sexual.
I always liked Maya. Intelligent, strong, attractive, able to be both serious and funny. It's a combination that I find very appealing. Catherine integrates it all very smoothly in the character, creating a very rare character indeed. Maya is far from Hanna Barbarish.
didn't go around the station wearing some slinky alien get-up.
No, though she did have a couple slinky outfits that did look nice. She looked nice in an Alphan uniform too, and point taken. I remember there being complaints about STNG's Deanna Troi being dressed so differently, despite being a crew member. Not that I didn't mind seeing Marina Sirtis in some of these outfits, but I did wonder about it, considering the rest of the crew, regardless what race or species, had to wear Starfleet uniforms, IIRC. Besides, Maya obviously tried her best to fit in, literally and figuratively. (Yikes, I think I just created a multi-pun sentence. :-)
I just have to add that Catherine Schell is simply a delight to hear and see -- even when she's being chased by a monster.
Most definitely!
the sort of self-deprecating sarcasm Verdeschi displays under the pen of a *writer* with a sense of humour is, I think, the main reason I enjoy his addition to the cast so much (we're talking in general here, btw).
Talking in general, I do like his sarcastic humor as well. The variety of characters is interesting, and I like how it tracks as an Alpha shaking loose some of the shock they felt about Breakaway that seemed to arrest them for much of Y1. A very human mixture.
with Tony alternatively bewildered, bashful and finally delightfully smug, while Maya goes from childish enthusiasm to perfect peeve at the drop of a word.
They seemed to nail the emotional aspects, and Maya (and Catherine, certainly) is *always* great in that regard.
Also, something I hadn't noticed before, and which surprised me upon viewing the episode again: the tone with which Anholt delivers the "I love you". [....] I felt there was actually a lot of feeling in the tone, like a grudging admission brought about by a sudden surge of emotion -- perhaps an attempt by Anholt to fit in with the "man under pressure" idea.
You probably put it better than I earlier in this note.
(And no, I haven't been taking lessons in "extrapolation ad nauseam" from a fellow list member :)
Uh oh, sounds like me! :-)
While I'm still on the subject of characters and acting, I might add, as I have mentioned before, that this episode features a bit more action for Sandra. It turns out she actually has a useful skill besides screaming and opening hailing frequencies (oops, wrong show). Admittedly, the "Bill Rigs Up A Barrier" scenes were a tad tedious,
I agree about Sandra, but actually felt the scenes with Fraser worked too. I didn't find them tedious, perhaps because they do...
fulfil the classic purpose of a build-up before the final confrontation
It's fairly transparent in that sense, but what they tried to do in rigging that barrier did make sense in the episode, with the Alphans in a desperate "try anything they can" mode, which I found convincing enough.
and on viewing the episode again, they didn't bother me all that much. At least the barrier served the plot purpose of jolting Maya into realisation. IOW, Maya *and* Sahn save the say. Left to their own devices, Tony and Bill would be toast, and Alpha one big ice cube. I doubt Freiberger had thought about it while writing the episode, but I like that. <g>
<LOL> Emma's got a devilish turn of phrase. :-)
Loved her MSTie-like take of the episode. Hey, I like parody too!
I mention our friend Freiberger, and I might just as well turn my attention to the actual story at this point. I certainly can't pretend that it's a stellar plot -- "Hero fights monster" is a theme that reaches back to Greek mythology and beyond, and as the theme goes, Freddie isn't going to win any prizes for original execution. And yet: I must have seen dozens of monster rampages as a child, and this was the one that stuck in my mind.
I agreed on all points. It's old, it's hoary, Freddie doesn't add much new to it, but he executes it well. Not perfectly, but well enough that it stuck in my mind too, and is such a good and entertaining action story that I'd give this one a 3.0/B or so.
David Welle
From: Robert Gilbert (bcpgd@shaw.wave4tag.ca) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:35:39 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Tony has the creature locked in the vacuum chamber, and he opens the door? Damn!
There is no way to tell if the creature is dead unless he does open it --- and he'd just hate to have some _Woman_ go in there and be smarter than he is by opening the V.C. to find the creature? I agree he should've left it in there till John and the others were better and could decide for themselves what to do with it, but then Tony (SuperEgo-Extraordinaire) wouldn't have the entire credit of killing the creature!
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:40:39 -0500 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
BTW, if I recall correctly, Kreno referred to the planet (moon?) of origin of a chlorine-breathing creature Maya became in "AB Chrysalis." That one couldn't even breathe any oxygen at all, immediately starting to suffocate when she wasn't in a chlorine environment. This one seemed to handle it better, and was perhaps <speculation mode on> a variant species Maya hadn't thought of the first time. </speculation mode off>
----David
From: David Welle (dwelle@itol4tag.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:52:01 -0500 Subj: Space1999: "Beta Cloud" and Other Title Humor
At 05:55 PM 09/15/98 +0100, Ariana wrote:
And indeed, why The Beta Cloud? Why not The Big Swirly Thing In Space?
What if one applied Greek to the other Woodgrove episodes, in order?
We do have "Lambda Factor," though not written by Freiberger.
There were the Deltans of Y1.
Maybe "The Last Sunset" should have been named "Sunset Omega."
I've got a "Moonbase Omega" (sort of) in one of my stories.
We could have had "Nu Adam Nu Eve."
Tora (in "The Seance Spectre") could have been Tau.
Kappacombs of the Moon?
How about the "Guardian of Pi" or "Full Two Pi R"
So many epsilons (er... episodes), so little time.
Sorry, I'll go get some sleep now.
My 1.999 cents, minus some sense,
David Welle
From: Ariana (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:51:37 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Off topic
Hello all
A lot of you say you do not like the show or say it is silly now because of this or that scene.
Fortunately, I think most of our comments are directed at this or that episode -- we wouldn't all be here if we really thought the whole series was silly.
As we matured and our would became larger we learned with experience.
I agree that things change with time, although I'm glad to report I'm one of those who has kept my childhood enthusiasm for certain episodes like The Beta Cloud. <g>
In the scene were Tony lets Maya know he loves her, maybe Maya already loves Tony but did not want to say so thinking it may scare off Tony.
That's a very interesting point. Perhaps she is afraid he'd be reluctant to get so deeply involved with an alien. After all, unlike the humans in Star Trek, who are used to having it off with Dabo girls and passing aliens of various species, the Alphans have no experience of interaction with aliens beyond conflict or, very rarely, temporary cooperation.
Indeed, at the risk of repeating myself: this isn't Star Trek. There is no reason (as far as I remember) to believe that all aliens are "compatible" as they are in Trek. In New Adam, New Eve, Maya herself says "We may not even be compatible" (which implies, btw, that she and Tony haven't found out for themselves yet ;-). So Maya's apparent reluctance to make any declarations of her own might stem from the fear that things might go horribly wrong.
Probably more on that in my response to David Welle's mail (if the phone stays quiet...)
These are just my opinions and ideas. I hope you do not become upset about them.
Well, I'm perfectly happy with them myself. :-)
Emma
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:12:16 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Love, Maya, and Tony
Oh yikes. Only 500 words?? ;-) Actually, to be brief...
Hehe. I suppose the criteria could be revised depending on the quality of the response. :)
Someone pointed out the love she had for her family. Not the same thing, I know, but Mentor seems to have raised his daughter very well, to be a warm, intelligent, friendly, humorous person, which would certainly be an attractant to most of the opposite sex anyway.
I don't think anyone has any questions about why Tony would be attracted to Maya. Even I can see why! :-)
The apparent lack of young men her age, during the "teenage" years (I mean the same phase in her life, even if counting by different measures), would of course be an issue; but maybe that's part of why it took her and Tony so long to really start connecting on deeper emotional levels.
Absolutely. Even assuming she had plenty of theoretical knowledge of romance, there's no substitute for real interaction (and no, I'm not just talking about sex). I agree with David's theory that Maya got no chance to interact with Psychon suitors back home, as it were. It was one of the things I didn't agree with in Philippa Sidle's "The Transformation", the idea that Maya had had any opportunity to be courted by a young lad of her own age and species before coming to Alpha. But more on Philippa later, since you mention her too.
For once, the "log," with its 342-2409 range, which seems too long for most things, actually seems to make some sense in this one area. In a sense, Maya starts out like a child when it comes to love. Tony has a childish streak mixed with a somewhat macho nature.
I know there are some Italians on the list, and I don't want to offend them, but Tony does remind me of quite a few Italians I met when I worked in Dublin. Let's just say I think Tony's characterisation is sometimes spot on. <g>
Maya shows emotion well, but doesn't put her personal feelings into words that often. Tony almost never puts his feelings into words, at least when it comes to love.
Plus, he might be doing some behind-the-scenes freaking out at the idea of going out with someone who can turn into any living being...
So in different ways, both have to grow up in these areas, learning to feel and finally speak deeper romantic love. They keep their basic natures, but have to learn new things as well.
This is exactly how I perceive the relationship too, and it's one of the (many!) themes I want to develop in my seemingly interminable crossover. Ah, spring on Deep Space Nine, when the neutrinos are blooming... and the Moon is shining outside. ;)
That's my perception, anyway, and the short version of that. I'd probably need the 13/09/99 deadline otherwise!
Here's looking forward to the long version some day!
Philippa Sidle, though not on the list now, had very different feelings about how Tony and Maya's relationship progressed, which you can read in her fan fiction.
I've only read the two stories of hers that are on the Cybermuseum, and I came away with the distinct impression that she does not like Tony one little bit! :) Which is fair enough -- I know how difficult it is to write about characters you feel no affinity/sympathy for. I would have been interested to discuss the point more in depth with her, but the mail I sent her disappeared into nowhere. I'd certainly be interested to read anything else she wrote on the subject -- both La Carmencita and The Transformation seemed to refer to some other work (or maybe it was just a common backstory). I'm always glad to read about Tony and Maya anyway.
We both saw them as having problems communicating their feelings, and having some immature aspects to them; but since Maya seemed to have no prior opportunity for romantic relationships while Tony did, Philippa had Tony taking much more advantage of the naive Maya.
That has to be a problem in any situation like this where the level of experience is so different. It's a tricky point to deal with in a story, too. I chose in mine to adopt David's pov -- ie: it would take them a lot of time to get really involved. But ultimately, it's still difficult to make it so Tony isn't taking advantage of Maya in some way.
Emma
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web44tv.net) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Subj: Space1999: Space/Kreno Animal reference
Well, at least I can clear up one mystery.
Don't you remember? In Chrysalis A B, Maya had to change into a chlorine breathing animal in order to rescue Alan. She told Koenig it was a chlorine breathing "creature" from the planet KRENO. In The Beta Cloud, Maya tries to lure the creature/robot into the hydroponics unit after it has been filled with....CHLORINE GAS! So---somebody was paying attention to continuity---Maya AGAIN changes into the same creature--the "Space/Kreno Animal". Who ever does the credits was paying attention.
Anyway that's where that comes from.
Mateo
From: "Simon Morris" (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:21:51 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Dave Welle wrote:
...yet it is great fun as a straight-forward action episode. I don't mind straight-forward entertainment now and then. "The Taybor" was very good as comic relief, and "The Beta Cloud" was very good, albeit not great, as "pure" action (whatever that means).
Well I sort of agree with this. My main disappointment was that it never knocks my head off like it did in 1976. It *is* a good action show..but I wish a little more thought had gone into it.
First, there's the title. It still sounds silly and meaninglessly arbitrary, but my original question has peaked my own curiosity: is it the second "space cloud" they've encountered?
Beats me. No,to be honest I think it was an arbitrary title and surely they could have come up with something else...
People start fainting, as if their systems are being interfered with in a way not too dissimilar to the computers. The cloud persists for days, and soon almost everyone has been affected, except for Maya, Tony, Sandra, and a progressively less number of Alphans, as if some are immune, some only partially. (The reasons are never clear on any of this.)
Yes,and thats one of the problems. I'm not sure now,but I don't think there is any specific explanation as to why this "illness" hits Alpha or if its connected with the cloud. It was just a convenient way of keeping the majority of the cast of screen for the episode. Makes you wonder if they were over budget on another show and were trying to make up the shortfall by cutting the cast on this one!
I could see why Maya objected, and I liked her objection, about wanting to be with Tony. Why, they're in love, whether or not they've admitted it to each other (or even themselves), and are trying to protect each other! Maya wants to protect Tony by staying with him, and he wants to protect her by sending her to a point of (relative) safety.
Now this is true. And realistic as well. Just as I found the dialogue in the epilogue realistic too. Shows Freiberger in a good light,I'd say....
Also, remember from "The Rules of Luton," where Maya wanted to try attacking, but John held her back, fearing it could tear her apart. Maybe this thought was lingering in her mind. Maybe Tony heard about this or realized she didn't have infinite strength.
As I understood it,RULES was originally(early draft) to feature Verdeschi and Maya rather than Koenig and Maya? Again,the fear for Maya's safety would have been understandable. In fact I find the Alphans general protectiveness towards Maya in several episodes to be rather touching.
...Yes, I wondered why she just didn't become Tony. I liked someone's (sorry, forgot the orginator's name) idea that she was uncomfortable doing so. She actually turned into Alphans very rarely...
Yeah. Interesting question here. When Maya transformed into an Alphan,would she have taken on that persons thoughts and personality? Or was it just the physical appearance and voice?. When she transforms into the 'globs' in BRINGERS OF WONDER she says they have "minds of genius's and instincts of vultures" (or something). If I could delve into somebody else's minds,thoughts and instincts like that,*I'd* be a bit concerned. A metamorph's powers could be considered both a blessing and a curse really don't you think?
So I actually find myself giving Tony points for one of the more original "come on" lines around. :-) It still sounds a bit corny in the "light of day," but Maya obviously doesn't care, except that he's wasting precious seconds on words. Sounds so... human -- both of them. It works.
Hey...I'm one of the biggest incurable romantics around. But to me it seemed ludicrous to stop everything for a quick snog while an unstoppable monster is about to swat the life out of them. (Not to mention that it was damn decent for the monster to give them these few seconds before launcing itself at Fraser's electrical barrier :-)
Heck, probably everyone says some things, in the rest of day-to-day life, that they'd like to take back and reword, for sounding silly the first time. I certainly do. Along the same lines, people often waffle about with romantic stuff as well, during and after the fact.
Well yes indeed(bashful smile.....)
Too bad the producers (and I'm including Anderson, Lew Grade, and the rest of the higher ups, as well as Freiberger) weren't so worried about keeping the episodes as separate, self-contained units, for the sake of possible episode shuffling (which did happen). They could have better shown how this put off Maya for awhile.
I tell you now Dave,that's JUST the sort of thing that would have made Y2 stand above Y1. It wouldve been lovely to have some continuity between episodes. I imagine that Maya would have ignored Tony for quite a while(certainly enough for everyone to notice) and that future scripts would have shown a definite frostiness between the two. For a while anyway.
Could I just say here how much I agree with Dave Welle(and Emma) that characters came off a lot better in Y2 than in Y1,especially Helena. I felt all the characters in Y1 were generally poorly drawn. I never really got to know,for example,Paul Morrow or Kano. Which is why I wasn't unduly concerned when they were dumped from Y2. I was more upset by Bergmans departure,but less so once I understood it was more about money than Barry Morse would have us believe...:-) I give the credit for Y2 characterisation squarely to Freiberger(who laid the foundation for the actors performances). And I totally disagree with those who say Maya was a "token alien",or a Mr Spock ripoff(usual clever phrases which writers and journalists like to come out with). She was a well conceived,written,and performed character. A big plus to the series!
Referring to Freiberger's tendency to "runaround plots",Dave said:
"Rules of Luton" was one. It had its moments, and one very good scene, but got to be tedious. "The Beta Cloud" was another, but I felt this one worked out far better.
Strange isn't it? I was never keen on BETA CLOUD(or SPACE WARP really). But generally I really enjoyed RULES OF LUTON from start to finish! I wonder why?
Freiberger was better at producing, IMO. I realize some will find it strange that "better" and "Freiberger" can be mixed in the same sentence, but for whatever it's worth, I think the majority of his work improved the series, while some of it did not.
Agreed on the above.We've said before that Freiberger had very specific skills(which were much lauded in Hollywood...even his sworn critic David Gerrold has admitted them)which were NEEDED to get Y2 in to production and keep it on course and within budget. Seeing as how ITC effectively reduced the budget(despite the lying press releases ) I think his skills were well used. I'd like to have seen Gerry Anderson do the same under those circumstances(or Sylvia,for that matter).
Petter keeps insisting that Freiberger's "Charles Woodgrove" episodes are the best episodes to study in regard to Freiberger's intent for the series. I'm not sure about that.
I am. Freiberger produced the episodes I would say to keep the show on schedule,to provide exactly what was needed in production terms,etc etc,and to provide exactly what his format promised. I don't believe Freddie's background had any influence at all in what he wrote. What you saw was what you got,basically. He wasn't interested in using his personal background as a way of exorcising demons or anything.... Remember the Y2 production crunches were solely as a result of ITC's demands. Nice one ITC...if anyone killed a show it was them,not Freiberger!
Freiberger might well have done better if he was just a writer rather than producer of the show. I have seen other stuff that Freiberger wrote(episodes of STARSKY AND HUTCH for example)and was impressed.
I agreed on all points. It's old, it's hoary, Freddie doesn't add much new to it, but he executes it well. Not perfectly, but well enough that it stuck in my mind too, and is such a good and entertaining action story that I'd give this one a 3.0/B or so.
Fair enough. I still think its main strong point was Wadsworth's music...but like I say,a fair point. We all think differently. As a matter of fact, I actually liked MATTER OF BALANCE quite a lot. Is that the one we're looking at next?
Simon Morris
From: Simon Morris (simes01@global44net.co.uk) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:16:59 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: Not so empty?
I also wonder if it's no accident that Freddie wrote three scripts that acted as either half of the double ups, or as a vehicle for the Landau's vacation? He is hard to go all one way or the other on, because though these are quick knock offs (I think) he still can put in stuff we like (the discussion in "Rules"; the tag in "Beta".)
Well said. Freiberger's scripts seemed to me to be written to cater for specific production problems(absence of cast members,shooting of other episodes simulataneously or whatever)..or at least were rejigged to cater for them. Must have been a fairly tough job. And whatever you think about the guy,he did include a number of appealing characters and character moments which frankly had been missing in Y1 (IMHO only of course). You only have to look at some of the comments made as a result of Emma posing a question about the Verdeschi/Maya relationship. Lets give the guy a break and give credit where its due.
Simon
From: "Ariana" (ariana@ndirect4tag.co.uk) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:31:06 +0100 Subj: Re: Space1999: The Beta Cloud
Catching up...
Simon certainly stated a lot of these problems a few days later, many of which I agree were flaws. Yet I also found myself agreeing with a lot of what Emma (a.k.a. "Ariana") said in her note.
Thanks. <g>
The so-named cloud appears, but one declaration is odd: "range constant."
I was looking at the script for A Certain Episode That Gets Discussed A Lot Around Here and found similar declarations concerning the big swirly thing they meet there, since Sandra says: "Sir. Scanner shows that the object is not moving. I do not understand. Look at that monitor. It is still getting closer to us." (yes, more gripping dialog ;)
themselves, they are only injured or killed. Tony orders Maya and Sandra to medical center. As a few people pointed out, why didn't Tony have Maya try an attack as another form? ... I could see why Maya objected, and I liked her objection, about wanting to be with Tony. Why, they're in love, whether or not they've admitted it to each other (or even themselves), and are trying to protect each other!
I know I was one of the ones making fun of this particular point, but I agree wholeheartedly with David's interpretation. Maya wants to stay with Tony because she feels she can protect him, while Tony wants her to go away because that's the most effective means he has of protecting her... um, which is *exactly* what David said.
Tony voice-locking the doors, although technically a good idea on its own, does break continuity (and plain old simplicity) in ignoring the Y1 fact of
Not to mention it makes him sound a bit like Homer Simpson with a new toy -- "door opens, door closes, door opens..."
I liked Emma's analysis of the "haphazard scientific method" applied. The various efforts at attempting to destroy the monster seemed very, er... human.
It was definitely one of the reasons the episode stayed in my mind. There was no instant technobabble solution to the problem.
Emma, do you work in programming or technical support of computer software or hardware? You peppered your note with phrases that sound awfully familiar.
Heh. It is pretty obvious I solve problems for a living, though nothing so interesting as my *own* problems. I do telephone support for Microsoft Word. <g>
liked someone's (sorry, forgot the orginator's name) idea that she was uncomfortable doing so.
I think the originator was Mateo, and I can see how turning into Tony would be a bit of a problem for Maya.
From what I've seen in the series, I assume that when Maya changes into a creature, she actually *becomes* a member of that species. It was clear in Space Warp that Maya's internal organs transform along with her, whence Helena's inability to operate on her in a changed state. This also explains why, as a Kreno monster, Maya started to suffocate in the oxygen environment in AB Chrysalis. It also makes sense in this case that Maya can only change into *living* matter -- perhaps her ability actually revolves around resequencing her DNA. (BTW, this is a fascinating contrast to Odo on DS9, who can change into any object because he merely emulates surfaces and textures)
So if Maya were to turn into Tony, she would actually *be* Tony, inside and out. And as Mateo said, there are probably a whole lot of things she had rather not know about Tony (I know that, much as I love him, I wouldn't want to actually *be* my boyfriend). It might also have occurred to her that Tony himself might not be too thrilled to know she had become him and now knew about... well, you can imagine.
Also, and here we potter off into the realm of total speculation, Maya might find it generally more comfortable to change into female animals. She did become Captain Michael, and a male Psychon on a couple of occasions, but that was for the sake of expediency, as a means to an end. Her playful transformations tend to be female -- she probably got fewer surprises changing into Helena than she would becoming Tony.
Of course, she didn't exactly have much time to ponder what shape to take in The Beta Cloud, either. She had already used the mouse before (assuming Brian The Brain was "before" The Beta Cloud), so it was perhaps simpler to just change into something she already knew, rather than try her hand at becoming a fully dressed version of her boyfriend.
And finally, maybe she didn't fancy walking through the whole station shouting "Open" and "Close" at every door between her and Tony...
Emma pointed out that she liked Tony and Maya, and that this episode featured them the most.
It's a pity it had to be this particular episode, but I guess we have to take what we were given.
But speaking of chemistry, what about the main two romantic scenes? Well, I liked how the pressure drove both to finally admit, out loud, their feelings to each other.
As I've said before, the actual out loud admission was only his, not hers. I'm not saying that I think for one minute that Maya isn't supposed to love Tony in the show. I'm just mentioning the fact that she wasn't very forthcoming, whence my speculation as to what she might expect from a relationship as opposed to what Tony would expect.
His line about Psychon being his favorite planet makes me cringe a little, yet doesn't love sometimes bring out cheesy sounding lines, especially under pressure?
Hehe. My boyfriend certainly has lots of nice things to say about France!
Indeed, Tony takes back what he said, in that he later calls it "wild garbage." Ouch, poor Maya.
Agreed on the "macho man" bit concerning Tony. Now, if I could just get that Village People song out of my mind... :)
episode shuffling (which did happen). They could have better shown how this put off Maya for awhile. Actually, though, one could argue it took awhile to patch things up. I'd be getting ahead of the episodes, though.
I look forward to hearing more about that!
insect and disrupts the circuitry inside it. Instead of bugs in the software, it's bugs on the hardware. :-)
That's where the original "bugs" came from after all -- who would have thought cleaning out moths from a bunch of vacuum tubes would coin such a long lasting term?
Victor was my favorite, John worked well enough, and Alan was likeable.
I hate to say this given how everyone else seems to love him, but Victor gave me the pip.
in "balance." (Hmmm, "A Matter of Balance," maybe? Sorry. :-) I find poor characters can cripple a plot, and poor plot can cripple characters. This didn't happen as often in Y2 as it did in Y1, as far as I feel.
I agree with this, too. I can see we'll have to set up a mutual admiration society here!
No, though she did have a couple slinky outfits that did look nice. She looked nice in an Alphan uniform too, and point taken.
Talking about Alphan uniforms -- in One Moment Of Humanity, when Maya is kneeling in front of the forcefield, that's a *lot* of leg we get to see before she changes into the beetle. I'm glad they more or less retired those silly skirts in other episodes -- bring back the bell bottoms, says I.
being complaints about STNG's Deanna Troi being dressed so differently, despite being a crew member.
Hehe. As I'm sure some people on this list will have guessed, the ST character I was thinking about was actually Seven of Nine. Imagine Maya in *that* kind of suit. (OTOH, just watch "The Return of the Pink Panther" :)
Loved her MSTie-like take of the episode. Hey, I like parody too!
Thanks! And thanks to everyone else who told me they enjoyed it, too. I certainly had fun writing it, and especially thinking up Red Dwarf and Monty Python references to put in there! (did everyone get them, btw? ;)
Enough from me for today (I think)
Emma
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