Another RATM Thread

From:  "Mark Meskin" (plastic.gravity@newrock44.com)
Date:  Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:37:32 -0600
Subj:  Re: Space1999: RE: 1999

From:  Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi44.no)

[Editor's Note:  the first bit is regarding "All That Glisters"]

>I think the meaningless script only makes the
> episode better as it then speaks directly to our emotions rather than
> going the long way around via the intellect.

Umm...yeah, Homer........pass the donuts will ya?

>I was thinking how wonderful it would have been
> if we had an extended version of RING AROUND THE MOON.  As this episode
> is almost over the moment you have started it, I think it would have
> been even better in an augmented version running three hours, or perhaps
> six, although six would then again be perhaps a little bit too long
> for an evening.  A Wagner opera often runs between four and five hours,
> however, so perhaps something similar could have worked well on RING
> AROUND THE MOON.

Petter if you try to link RING AROUND THE MOON with the Rings( DER RING DES
NIBELUNGEN ) or suggest stretching it to something like a Ring Cycle, I
will have an ASCII gag reaction.

> Instead of adding more action, I think the episode could have explored
> the posibilitis that were already present more deeply, like say, more
> and longer sequences of Helena being activated at random, walking
> down the corridors and punching on the keyboard on the wall.  To me
> this part of the episodes passes all too quickly making me sometimes
> rewind the tape in order to extend the episode and enjoy it more.

Youve got to be kidding.  Thats BORING.  If you want to fix RATM, try these
few steps:

1)Get someone else to do the Music, the Vic Elms score is lame, and vary
jarring compared to the rest of Space:1999's music. The current score tries
to be fatalistic and erie, it succeeds at depression.

2)The BASIC plot is rather workable: An Alien Probe encounters the moon.
What happened to that rather simple idea is beyond me though.  Loose all
that made-up mumbo-jumbo psuedo Astronomy that Victor Spews throughout most
of this episode.  Maybe even have Victor just shut up the whole episdoe, as
his other lines are rather bad as well.  Amazing, isn't?  Only a few weeks
out into deep space and Victor has amassed all this knowledge about a
galaxy spanning(on this point, I'm not sure, as in this episode Victor(who
is supposed to be a scientist)doesn't seem to know the difference between
star system, galaxy, and Universe!) empire that just happens to have been
wiped out 30,000 years ago.  How does Victor know this?  Why do we care?
And if this empire was so large, how did one Nova wipe them out(if anyone
out there knows any Astronomy, they will know what I'm getting at)?
Perhaps in form with the current script well just say the whole Universe
went Nova.....right......

It would have been better if instead of all that crap, the probe just
starts to suck the moon into say a singularity(calling them intruders into
Tritonian space or some shit) and finding out about the fall of this great
empire by raiding the probe itself.  Every thing about this episode is just
WRONG, and maybe thats why it works for you Petter.

3)Prentis!  Get your ass away from that microphone!  You sound like youre
making a dirty phone call.

4)Please put some symbols or numbers on those damn keys.  Perhaps from a
visual standpoint this is an effective way of showing a human being used as
an interface to the computer, but lets be realistic here.  THERE IS NO WAY
THAT ANY SERIOUS AMOUNT OF DATA IS GOING TO BE ENTERED INTO THE COMPUTER BY
WHACKING THE KEYS FAST!  Its just too slow.  And what about how the data is
getting back to the Probe?  I don't see Helena scanning screens or
printouts or something?  It would have been better to have her commandeer
the computer by force and point the radio dish or something and
transmit.recieve data that way.

5)The Eye.......uh, yeah.....this thing is so hokey it makes the space
calamari(from DD) and the Beta Cloud monster look real.

Uggh.  This episode gives me a headache.....ive had enough of it for a long
long time....maybe until the next Ring Cycle even......

> > 3 - Brian the Brain
>
> An episode very few tend to like, perhaps being reminded at the time
> that they had passed the age when this kind of thing was funny.  I get
>  In a way it seems like a
> childrens version of the HAL sequence in 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, and is
> in it's philosophical implications equally interesting, I think, although
> the style is as childish as that of the computer-robot episode INFERNAL
> MACHINE.

BB is just too plain insipid.  This one also has a relatively salvageable
plot, but Brian himself is what sinks it.  Had the computer been more
sinister or more rational, this would have worked.  Its too bad really.
The Swift is rather cool looking, and the surface of Planet D is rather
well realized.

Mark




From:  "Atomic Possum" (atomicpossum@planetstl44.com)
Date:  Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:27:55 -0600
Subj:  Re: Space1999: RE: 1999

-->stuff about RATM that I basically agree with snipped, and you can thank
me with small, unmarked bills<--

>BB is just too plain insipid.  This one also has a relatively salvageable
>plot, but Brian himself is what sinks it.  Had the computer been more
>sinister or more rational, this would have worked.  Its too bad really.
>The Swift is rather cool looking, and the surface of Planet D is rather
>well realized.

     You know, there's probably a fortune to be made (on Ebay) for someone
who's willing to hire a good voice actor and re-dub all of Brian's
dialogue.....'BRIAN THE BRAIN:  The Special Edition', anyone?

     I like Bernard Cribbins and all, really, but the whole episode goes out
the window with the wild, unrestrained and just plain LOUD delivery.  Even
the 'trolley with yellow wheels' bit could have been tolerable if they had
brought the lines across as charming or clever, instead of manic and
childish.  The heavy-handed Frieberger touch took it's toll on this one,
where a little subtlety would have helped an adequate story.

-----------------
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter



From:  "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi44.no)
Date:  Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:44:22 +0000
Subj:  Re: Space1999: RE: 1999

Mark Meskin wrote:

> Youve got to be kidding.  Thats BORING.  If you want to fix RATM, try these
> few steps:
>
> 1)Get someone else to do the Music, the Vic Elms score is lame, and vary
> jarring compared to the rest of Space:1999's music. The current score tries
> to be fatalistic and erie, it succeeds at depression.

It succeeds, doesn't it?  I think the score is magnificent, and very
appropriate, I think, that they left the Barry Morse output for this one.
The general feel, I think, is very much like the mysterious moment in
BLACK SUN where the voice reveals itself, only that in RING AROUND THE
MOON this feeling is kept constantly present through the whole episode.
Magnificent!

> 2)The BASIC plot is rather workable: An Alien Probe encounters the moon.
> What happened to that rather simple idea is beyond me though.  Loose all
> that made-up mumbo-jumbo psuedo Astronomy that Victor Spews throughout most
> of this episode.  Maybe even have Victor just shut up the whole episdoe, as
> his other lines are rather bad as well.  Amazing, isn't?

Most of SPACE:1999 was a lot of mumbo-jumbo pseudo-science, as Asimov
commented on as early as with the first episode, BREAKAWAY, but, as
Asimov, points out, it doesn't really matter all that much as long as it
is there for some dramatic reason.  Having the whole series set in a
low gravity environment, for instance, would soon become increasingly
boring.

I rather like the comments made by Victor, but I tend to look for what
his comments say about him rather than what the comments have to say
for the logical structure of the plot.  I believe this is how it was
written by di Lorenzo as there are many incidences of discussions and
actions that seem not to lead anywhere.  In fact, the most well handled
comments in the episode, in my opinion, is where Helena explains that
she has really no idea about what's going on.  Quite fantastic, I might
add, and a wonderful description of the everyday life of scientists and
mathematicians living a life consisting of ideas and theories.

In fact, what I like most about this episode is that it seems to
explain scientists as human beings.  It is not about space cowboys
using technology, like STAR TREK for instance, but it is an exploration
of the inner world of the people of science and as such it is tremendously
successful, I feel.

> 3)Prentis!  Get your ass away from that microphone!  You sound like youre
> making a dirty phone call.

Heh heh.  I liked this aspect too.  The whispering Triton probe is a
perfect metaphore for the delicasy of pure and applied science.  One of
many good points of the episode, I think, just like Zienia Merton did
a wonderful job as the mysterious voice in BLACK SUN.

> 4)Please put some symbols or numbers on those damn keys.  Perhaps from a
> visual standpoint this is an effective way of showing a human being used as
> an interface to the computer, but lets be realistic here.  THERE IS NO WAY
> THAT ANY SERIOUS AMOUNT OF DATA IS GOING TO BE ENTERED INTO THE COMPUTER BY
> WHACKING THE KEYS FAST!  Its just too slow.  And what about how the data is
> getting back to the Probe?  I don't see Helena scanning screens or
> printouts or something?  It would have been better to have her commandeer
> the computer by force and point the radio dish or something and
> transmit.recieve data that way.

I've never minded the keyboard keys, actually.  These do not, of course,
represent something particular about RING AROUND THE MOON as in all episodes,
when they are punching the keyboards, taking an Eagle home, John Koenig
punching on the apparatus on his commander desk or whatever, there are
no symbols on the keys.

It may appear unpracticle, and one of the major changes from Y1 to Y2
was adding signs and symbols everywhere, but I rather tend to prefer
the sterile simplicity of Y1.  It fits elegantly with the Gernreich
costumes and does magic to the abstractness of the episodes.  I understand
very well why Keith Wilson left out signs and numbers in the first season,
it simply looks much better.

> 5)The Eye.......uh, yeah.....this thing is so hokey it makes the space
> calamari(from DD) and the Beta Cloud monster look real.

Robert Ruiz used to make a parallell here between RING AROUND THE MOON
and German expressionism as typified by DAS CABINET DES DR. CALIGARI (1919).
I thought that was a rather good comparison as it focuses on the
inner world of the Alphans which really is the issue in this episode.
Personally I think it worked quite well, definitely adequat in this
episode because of the deeper significance of it, although in the more
extravert DRAGON'S DOMAIN it would have been completely out of place.

> Uggh.  This episode gives me a headache.....ive had enough of it for a long
> long time....maybe until the next Ring Cycle even......

I like it.  A wonderful episode, I think, and tremendously fascinating
to discuss.  From my point of view this episode is quite close to
the heart of SPACE:1999, a very natural episode to make comparisons
with in order to understand the rest of Y1.

Quite interestingly I've found out that ALL THAT GLISTERS holds some
of the same position in Y2, at least ALL THAT GLISTERS is a Y2 episode
that is possible to like, well almost at least, and consequently a
good enzyme for understanding the rest of the season in a less Freiberger
sort of way.

> BB is just too plain insipid.  This one also has a relatively salvageable
> plot, but Brian himself is what sinks it.  Had the computer been more
> sinister or more rational, this would have worked.  Its too bad really.
> The Swift is rather cool looking, and the surface of Planet D is rather
> well realized.

As usual it is easier to agree with you, Mark, when we discuss episodes
apart from RING AROUND THE MOON, MISSING LINK and MATTER OF LIFE AND
DEATH.  In your comments on BRIAN THE BRAIN I agree quite a lot, although
I feel that the things that prevents this episode to work to full
conclusion has more to do with the general Y2 universe than particular
assets inherit in this episode.

Many have complained about the voice of Brian.  Personally I've only
seen the French version of the episode, where he goes by the name of
Marcel actually, and there he is not really all that bad.

Computer conciousness is, nevertheless, a fascinating subject, at least
the way I see it, as it is becoming increasingly relevant as the
digitalisation and mathematising of the everyday world is growing
increasingly complex and increasingly biological-like.

Petter