From: achana@eng.mc.xerox44.com (Amardeep S Chana) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:49:08 PST Subj: Black Sun / Bergman Shield >Another problem with "Black Sun" that I've never understood: Victor created >his wonderful gravity shield. But it covered only the Base! What's with >the other parts of the Moon?? They should've come out on the other side >on a small piece of rock! > > >Zoltan Actually the shield was not what protected them from the black sun, rather it was the MUF*. This was also responsible for reuniting them with their compatriates in the survival ship. *Mysterious Unknown Force Bergman and Koenig knew the shield was just for morale purposes. That and to get Kano all torqued up for shutting his computer down! Amardeep
From: Orbiter (rcox@intergate44.bc.ca) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:47:12 -0800 Subj: Black Sun / Bergman Shield Hello Zoltan, et al... A question regarding Black Sun: The scene where Victor and Koenig age to what looks to be well into their 90's has me confused. If it were a black sun, did they time-warp? Were they all killed and then reborn as they exited the Black Sun, or was it a dream sequence? The gravitational forces of a black sun would be so strong as to capture even light itself- thus crush everything: the Earth's mass (if caught in a black sun) would be squeezed into a space the size of a matchbox.If they actually DID pass through a black sun, could it possibly have been a "wormhole" phenomenon with a strong gravitational pull? ...A question for the theoreticians and scientists in our midts... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ O R B I T E R Richard Cox
From: GuyCore@aol44.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:59:21 -0500 Subj: Re: Black Sun / Bergman Shield They'd have to pass through a wormhole. If not, the moon would've been sucked down the wash and imploded as it went toward the singularity. The moon could've caught a wormhole around the inner wash/event horizon, then got squirted out the other end of the wormhole. Ya know, not all wormholes have an exit, though. Some just end, and some end at the singularity. It would be a very fortunate thing if the moon caught one which was a complete tunnel from a here to a there, rather than a here to a nowhere. Guy
From: Zoltan Motyan (motyo@castor.net.matav44.hu) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:59:44 +0100 Subj: Re: Black Sun / Bergman Shield Hi Richard, I always considered the events inside of the black hole as a mystic, pure spiritual experience that has nothing to do with the gravitational forces. Somewhere in the middle of the "wormhole" they broke away from the physical universe for a moment and then fell back into it. Anything happened it happened in their mind only. The aging of Koenig and Bergman is only symbolic in my opinion: it symbolizes that for a few minutes they became wise cosmic beings who recognize their unity with the universe. "Everything is everything else..." Do you remember Space Odyssey? David Bowman had to age and close his human life in a few minutes(?) before his final transformation and reaching a higher level of existing. (Okay, this is a slighly different situation, but the symbolism is the same.)
From: Zoltan Motyan (motyo@castor.net.matav44.hu) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:20:58 +0100 Subj: Re: Black Sun / Bergman Shield > It would be a very fortunate thing if the moon caught one which was a > complete tunnel from a here to a there, rather than a here to a nowhere. And it should be an extremely large black hole to has a tunnel wide enough to transport the Moon in one piece. Maybe Victor's shield could expand the tunnel as the Moon is squeezing its way through it! ;) Zoltan
From: Trekfan100@aol44.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:08:34 -0500 Subj: Re: Black Sun / Bergman Shield Funny, I just watched that eppisode last night & realized that a bunch of the ending was cut off of my copy. UGH! Guess I need to get this eppisode again. My theory, however, is that there is NO WAY that they should have survived & that the eagle would have followed them through since they went in the other direction. It was clearly divine intervention. Trekfan100
From: Maurizio Majelli (majelli@inopera44.it) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:54:21 +-100 Subj: R: Black Sun / Bergman Shield Of course I'm not a scientist, but I remember clearly a wonderful book I was reading the first time I watched S1999. "I Mostri del cielo" (Sky monsters) edited by a famous italian astronomer P.Maffei in 1975 (uh) He describes the possible result of three different ways to journey through a black hole (or black sun). It is based upon a theoretical model suggested by R.P.Kerr and E.T. Newmann in 1965. According to their theory there are at least four kinds of Black Hole. Say that our kind is that which has rotation, electric charge and mass. To cut short they said that if you create a diagram where the x is the space while the y is the time you could decide the right path to follow. That diagram was improved in the Penrose-Carter (uh again) chart. In other words your destiny depends on the so-called HORIZONS OF EVENTS. As we know If the collapsed mass is big enough neither the speed of light could escape from its centre. The limit beyond which space and time began to be curved is the first horizon. The limit between the first horizon and space where the speed of light can't escape any more is the second horizon, behind which is hidden the SINGULARITY.That is to say where time and space exchange each other. Now, sorry for the length, if you are an astronaut who makes for the first horizon without crossing it you could bounce somehow rather than fall in the black hole. If you head centre,instead, you will end up crossing the two horizons being crushed. But if you manage to keep the way between the two horizons you could overcome the space-time distorsion popping out in another universe because the elapsed time could have been nearly infinite. Ok I've exaggerated but I found that theory so extremely fashinating that I couldn't resist... Hope you all would forgive my simplyfication and inaccuracy. I suggest interested people to go over it and explain much better than me the shades and other intriguing parts. The screenwriter seems to have read Kerr/Newmann study. Don't you find? Maurizio
From: plapoint@portage44.net (Michael Beaulieu) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:45:55 -0600 Subj: Black Sun: Question 1 Hello everyone, I will try to keep this short and to the point. Episode: Black Sun Scene: Alan Carter walks into the command centre. [Alan appears to be accusing Commander Koenig of saving himself from a sinking ship. His body language tells me he is ready to start a mutiny, with the help of Paul, Sandra, and the guy who loves Computer. Commander Koenig confirms that Eagle Five had been outfitted for lift-off, to Alan Carter.] Alan: (makes a long speech) I can't speak for the rest, but, I care about about dying, how I die. Staying here on Alpha I had already accepted that. But now there are going to be six or seven lives on that ship. Koenig: Six Alan: Well, I should be one of those six, Commander, because, if anyone can get them somewhere, I can. From this scene, {from the time Alan walks into the Command Centre right up to the first half of the last line of his speech (Well, I should be...)} he sound like he want to save himself and will do whatever it takes. This whole scene made him look like a coward, and this has bugged me, because it's very uncharacteristic for the character, Alan Carter to behave that way. Question: 1) Is this the impression that you got about Alan and his behaviour? If not, what impression did you get, and why, based on this scene? English is not my first language, which is why I question myself, if I am seeing this scene incorrectly or not. Any insight into this scene will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. Mike. Question 2 coming up, once I have finished typing it out. (editing and re-editing)
From: Orbiter (rcox@intergate44.bc.ca) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:53:51 -0800 Subj: re: Black Sun: Question 1 It seems to me more of a pessimistic hope against the odds at survival, rather than a last ditch at looking after himself. Carter felt he was the best at giving the Eagle passangers (at best0 a marginal shot at survival. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ O R B I T E R Richard Cox Earth Base Vancouver, B.C. Canada Space:1999 ...there is no other... :)
From: "Robert Ashley Ruiz" (espresso@dnai44.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:47:30 -0700 Subj: Re: Black Sun: Question 1 Michael: I don't see Alan as a coward for this scene at all. I think what's coming into play is that he's angry that he wasn't informed about a survival ship, and now that he's found out, what he tells Koenig means basically that he thinks he's the most capable pilot. Rather than escaping, I think Alan doesn't want to give up on life passively, and for all he knows he would be piloting the last of the human race with him, so it's important to him that whoever goes has the best chance for survival, which he thinks he can provide. Robert
From: Michael Decker (mdecker@dialnet44.net) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:16:35 -0800 Subj: Re: Black Sun: Question 1 The way I see it, Alan is first and formost an explorer. In "Breakaway", for example, he had every chance in the world to go back to Earth and not take his chances with the moon. I think he stayed with the moon not only for the sake of the greatest of adventures, the unknown; but because he really thought he could somehow make a difference. Same thing with this episode. I beleive he felt that A: The chances of the moon's survival were slight, and if anyone could get the survivors somewhere safe, it would be the most experienced pilot on Alpha. That was because of his sense of duty. And B: Talk about the greatest test of human survival! Six people adrift in an endless sea of stars! Talk about your million to one odds! Reminds me of an old movie called "Lifeboat". See it sometime if you ever have the chance. Michael
From: Trekfan100@aol44.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:20:43 -0500 Subj: Re: Black Sun: Question 1 My opinion on Alan Carter's behavior is as follows: He allowed his emotions to get the best of him. He knew he was the best man for the job, and he has a strong survival instinct. Alan just basically lost control, just as any human could being faced with certain death.
From: Ian Wheeler (ian@ianjames.demon44.co.uk) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:19:08 +0000 Subj: Black Sun: Question 1 (suggestion!) >survival! Six people adrift in an endless sea of stars! Talk about your >million to one odds! Reminds me of an old movie called "Lifeboat". See >it sometime if you ever have the chance. Or you could try the 90's Sci - Fi version, "Lifepod", based upon Lifeboat. It might identify more with the Science Fiction element of the "Survival Ship's" plight. Just a suggestion.
From: plapoint@portage44.net (Michael Beaulieu) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:08:55 -0600 Subj: Black Sun: Question 2 Hello Everyone, Computer decides(?) who goes in Eagle Five. In this episode, Commander Koenig's dialogue stresses the point that the computer is and had decided who will get to go in Eagle Five, several times in this episode. Immediately after the scene in Question 1, Commander Koenig gives out the names of who is going in Eagle Five, Dr. Russell, being one of them. Scene: (relating to question 1) Alan Carter seems to be trying to apologize for his cowardly behaviour. Commander Koenig "pretends," Alan is trying to say good-bye. I took Commander Koenig's reply to mean: 1) I will deal with you later, or, 2) I might of done the same thing if I were in your shoes, and not the Commander. Scene: (relating to question 2) Russell: John... Koenig: You're going. Russell: I am not going, Dr. Mathias can replace me. Koenig: Like hell he can. The list is final. This isn't the time for the noble gesture. Russell: I'm not being noble, if anything... John it's my life, it end here on Alpha or somewhere out in space, what difference does it make? Koenig: It makes a difference... to me. Question: 1) Commander Koenig's last line, doesn't that hint/imply that Commander Koenig decided who got to go in Eagle Five, at least in Dr. Russell's case, and, not Central Computer? This is the impression that I got out of that line, is this the impression that others got? If not, what made you perceive it differently? Again, thank you for your time, Mike
From: Trekfan100@aol44.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:24:35 -0500 Subj: Re: Black Sun: Question 2 Nope..The impression I got (Re: the 6 names for the survival ship) Certainly, if central computer chose the 6 names, it would indeed chose Koenig to go....What happened was the computer chose the names...Koenig's name WAS on the list, but because he's Koenig (un-selfish), he removed his name.....The computer did choose Helena, & Koenig wants her to go because he loves her & wants her to live.... Trekfan100 (Colleen)