Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:55:25 -0800 From: MMeskin@aol4tag.com Subject: Nuclear Engines? In a message dated 96-03-22 14:16:44 EST, arenburg@phobos.astro.uwo.ca (Stephen M. Arenburg) writes: > Escape speed of the moon is 1.5 km /s. That's slow as far as >space speeds go. A good air-air missile travels faster. Eagles are >supposed to be equipped with artificial gravity and nuclear engines. Where o where is it stated that eagles have nuclear engines? They look like chemical rockets to me. If they were nuclear engines why would't there be a thermonuclear exlposion when they crash? What kind Nuclear eingine? Wasn't an Eagles top speed stated in the Metamorph? Its been 19 years since I last veiwed that episode. Nuclear? -Mark
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:35:29 -0800 From: David Weis (dweis@indiana4tag.edu) It's in the Moonbase Alpha Technical Manual (title?), the binder that was put out by Starlog. I don't have a copy, but I'm positive it said nuclear engines and I believe it said that the Eagle could reach 10% of the speed of light (3x10^7 meters per second). Of course this is ludicrous, but I'm not going there . . . No reason to expect a thermonuclear explosion when an Eagle crashes though. Modern nuclear weapons are desinged to remain inert when on fire, dropped from high altitude, or involved in airplane crashes. They MIGHT leak radiation, but they just don't explode. If I was flying a space vehicle with a nuclear reactor, I'd want similar assurances.
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:40:42 -0800 From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu) 1. "Space Brain" The 'meteorite' is brought into Bergman's lab, and analyzed. It contains Aluminum, Titanium, Plastics, Nuclear Fuel, and a small amount of human tissue. It was a crushed eagle, and eagles are nuke powered. 2. "Last Sunset" After Helena et al. crashes, they discover that most of the water supply is contaminated, because toxic chemicals crashed from the rear up into the water supply. Helena says something like "we're lucky that the reactor didn't come loose and smash us." Nuclear reactors don't blow up in thermonuclear blasts. That's bullshit propagated by Jane Fonda-type kooks in the 1970's. Their nuclear fuel isn't energetic enough for exploding by fission. Nuclear waste shouldn't explode either, but who knows what reactors can do in the 1999 universe? Eagle's electric power comes from a nuke reactor. A nuclear rocket is another development of a reactor. Instead of a fuel reacting chemically with an oxidant to heat up and rush out the nozzle, liquid hydrogen is simply pumped into a hot nuclear reactor, and then rushes out the nozzle. NASA built experimental reactor rockets, and even tested them in the 1960's and 1970's. The project was NERVA (something like Nuclear Energy Rocket for Vehicle Application). After the end of the space race, and cancellation of any people going to Mars, these exeriments ended. You can find reports about this at the NASA technical server at: http://www.sti.nasa.gov/RECONselect.html search for keyworks like NERVA, KIWI, or PHOEBUS. Nuke rockets are more efficient than chemical rockets. They combine high thrust with high efficiency. Fusion would be even more powerful, in which hydrogen is pumped into a reaction chamber, fuses into helium, and rushes out the nozzle. The only source of energy more powerful than that would be anitmatter rockets. Pump tiny ammounts of anitprotons into some kind of working fluid, and let the resulting hot gas out the nozzle. Ronald #122 Self Destruct System Engineer (all space travellers need an SDS!)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:29:15 -0800 From: Bill Higgins (bhiggins@agt4tag.net) [Mark wrote:] >Where o where is it stated that eagles have nuclear engines? They look like >chemical rockets to me. If they were nuclear engines why would't there be a >thermonuclear exlposion when they crash? From what I remember of my physics, there would only be a thermonuclear explosion if the engines were designed as a thermonuclear weapon. When a nuclear reactor meltsdown/explodesthere generally is not a thermonuclear explosion. There would be an extreme amount of radioactive material spread about after a crash though, and that would make things a little bit nasty. Bill Higgins Base Computer Science/Operations/Repair
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:34:28 -0800 From: Amardeep_Chana@xn.xerox4tag.com (Chana,Amardeep) Some of the post-production literature (Tech Manual, perhaps?) states that they have nuclear engines. Also, in one of the episodes Alan is trying to figure out why the eagles won't function. He has a nuclear motor on a bench in one of the labs when it begins operating uncontrollably... etc. Nuclear explosions are VERY hard to create. An ordinary fission bomb takes into account the geometry of the fuel and the physics of how it comes together to create critical mass. If things are not juuuuuuuust right it will heat up, melt, and fizzle or cause a relatively small explosion due to the superheated gasses formed. Thermonuclear weapons have the same limitations above (a primary fission reaction is used to create the temperatures necessary for the secondary fusion reaction) plus a host of other issues like keeping the deuterium fuel from being dispersed by the primary detonation, etc. A reactor by design is nowhere near capable of producing a full nuclear explosion. Weapons grade fuel is probably >90% pure. The fuel pellets in your run of the mill power plant are only about 3% U235 by mass. Spent fuel is much much less than that. Which of course makes the whole waste dumps going up in a big bang concept kind of silly. But....... it's a good show and I enjoy it. Amardeep
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:33:38 -0800 From: logan@erols4tag.com First question: as Ronald (our trusty self destruct engineer) would attest, thermonuclear explosions do not occur by chance. The image of a nuclear bomb caught in a blazing fire while Superman struggles to take it out and throw it into space before a massive explosion are just science fiction. It wouldn't go off. For a nuclear chain reaction to occur, a PRECISE chain of events must take place to trigger it. A nuclear missile dropped from a plane would not create a catastrophic BOOM on ground zero upon impact. It needs to be detonated, either manually or by remote control. To make a long story short, since I am not qualified to go into the actual physics, no, an explosion would not occur if an eagle crashed unless, say the engine were set to self-destruct purposely. As for the eagle's top speed I clearly remember some mention made in an episode stating that it could go 10% the speed of light, or something equally ridiculous like that. From conventional fuel burning engines no less! It was poorly thought out stuff that required a suspension of belief.
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:45:34 -0800 From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu) > As for the eagle's top speed I clearly remember some mention made in > an episode stating that it could go 10% the speed of light, or something > equally ridiculous like that. From conventional fuel burning engines no > less! It was poorly thought out stuff that required a suspension of belief. This question prompted a review of the Starlog Eagle Blueprints. They claim Eagles can go 15% of the speed of light. They also claim Eagles' landing rockets are chemical rockets, and the big ones at the rear are nuclear fusion rockets. Whether Starlog constitutes canon is debatable. Their blueprints show a toilet in the aft section, next to the nuclear reactor. So if the pilots were on a mission without a passenger module, like hauling spacemines or nuclear waste canisters, then they can't get to the toilet unless they do a spacewalk. Otherwise, they have to do things the old fashion way, the way the Vostock cosmonauts and Mercury astronauts did: make their deposits into plastic bags! Ronald
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:58:32 -0800 From: "Stephen M. Arenburg" (arenburg@phobos.astro.uwo4tag.ca) It was mentioned in a second year episode (name escapes me - it's the one where this woman gets mind powers and has Maya trapped as an insect in a plastic box). There is a scene where alan is testing a nuclear engine for an eagle when it decides to power up - doors close, the plug won't disconnect etc. Nuclear reactors don't typicially explode (exception: fast breeders) and fusion types wouldn't even scatter racioactive materials about the crash site (with the right reaction)