Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:12:26 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Subject: Really Old Mail
I've been reading the archives from 1995, and wanted to rant about something:
This controversy grew out of something posted on Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:57:25
by Anthony (MicroPal@aol.com):
> Everyone asks 'why didn't they just fly back to Earth?'...first, think of
>the logistics...you've just been blasted out of Earth orbit...what are your
>first thoughts? 'Where's the nearest Eagle to Earth???" I don't think
>so...surely, there had to be damage to the Base, disorientation, shock,
>etc...I don't many were thinking clearly...also, the show (especially Year
>One) made clear that it would take severl hours (48?) to evacuate the
>Base...now, this might be to completely evacuate taking equipment, etc...but
>let's go with 24 hours for just the personnel...still a long time if you're
>hurtling from Earth...
And on Tue, 6 Jun 1995 17:45:58 Anthony wrote:
>Well, let me clear up my thoughts...I'm not suggesting that they were first
>going to fix all the problems on Alpha and then head back to Earth....I'm
>suggesting that the logistics of moving 300 people in a relatively short time
>would have been very difficult and perhaps dangerous. We don't know the
>status of the Eagles at this point...were they all operational? Also, wasn't
>it mentioned that most of them were tied up with dispersing the atomic waste
>before it went off???
But I would have to agree with what Tricia (sgsmatpa@reading.ac.uk) wrote on
Wed, 7 Jun 1995 06:40:54
>Just before Area 2 explodes Koenig realises that it is about
>to go up and orders Paul to 'Get them out of there'. I always assumed
>that there wasnt enough time for them to make it back to alpha but that
>those who didnt explode/collide etc crashed or landed on the moon and made it
>back afterwards. Rather like Koenig survives the explosion of area 1.
And I would have to agree with what Paul Bertrice
(paul@hpwrc714.mayfield.hp.com) wrote on Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:27:48
>Remember paul made a comment that some of the eagles were sent back due
>to navigational malfuncitons (due to the magnetic radiation). Simmons's
>Eagle was never modified to move the nuclear waste - hence why alan
>took it.
Now consider this:
All of those alphans sure did get off Piri in a hurry when they needed to.
And they all fit into about 10 eagles? 10 eagles were what were shown
leaving the moon, and after Koene down too, 11 were shown leaving
in a hurry, trying to catch the moon as it sped away. 311/10 ~ 31 alphans
per eagle. That's one crowded bus!
Was navigating back to the receding moon more complicated than navigating back
to the receding earth? Was the Area2 explosion more disorientating than
the sudden release from the Guardian's Grip?
So why is it that the alphans could quickly evacuate from explosions on Piri
to catch their moon, but not quickly evacuate the moon to get back to Earth?
CONCLUSION: "Guardian of Piri" demonstrates that the alphans could indeed move
all at once to catch a receding destination on an uncharted flight! They could
have similarly made it back earth immediately after the Breakaway.
Here's something really heretical/blasphemous: Did Koenig want to be Dictator of
his own his own little world? Or was he just an incompetant boob? Either
way, Simmons should have seized control when he sensed Koenig talking about
the alphans not having resources or flight plans,,,, before Koenig had the
chance to finish with "Therefore we do not try." Yes, admit it, Simmons
should have led a preemptive mutiny then and there, when Koenig had only
been commander for 4 days, instead of holding the base hostage later on in
"Earthbound", long after Koenig had solidified his tyrannical control, and
the moon was ~75 years travel time from earth.
Dare we conclude otherwise? Sorry if this upsets anybody. Just don't
put my head through a gene bank, like those hoary old Darian survivors did when
they concluded that the guy whom they had been worshipping all along was a
false god.
Ronald
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:35:03 -0800
From: Whyte Wolf (whytwolf@spots.ab4tag.ca)
Subject: Re: Moonbase Controversy (Was Koenig powerhungry?)
Ronald,
Interesting concept. I wonder if that really was the reason that Koenig
refused to return to Earth? Maybe Sandoval was right about Koenig after all.
Just one not though, to add to the controversy. Isn't it posible that
during their time in space, considering the number of thimes they attempted
Exodus, before 'Guardian of Piri', that the Alphans became very adept at moving
their 300+ personell quickly. After all, there had never been a need to move
the entire base staff in 10 eagles when the moon was in orbit. I assume they
just got better with practice and cut 24 hours down to 24 minutes (or whatever).
Sean -> food for thought.
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 13:58:02 -0800
From: mpoindexter@class44train.com (Marshall Poindexter)
Subject: Re: Evacuating Alpha and a Krazed Koenig
I like your reasoning, Ronald, but I believe the answer to this dilemma is
"writer's license." Unfortunately, I think that continuity problems have
reared their ugly little heads again. No one remembered that it took longer
to evacuate the moonbase by the time "Guardian of Piri" was put into
production. It seems to me that continuity was almost purposely avoided at
times.
I do have to admit that Martin Landau played Koenig a little over the top
and over the edge many times. I mean, just how much respect would you have
for a commander that yelled - sometimes screamed - at the top of his lungs
at his staff? Even though he was frustrated during many of those times, I
guess I would've better trusted a commander with a more even keel.
It also makes me wonder if Landau's portrayal of Koenig was a result of his
own understanding of the character or the director's or the producer's, and
if those displays of emotion were truly acting or just a reflection of the
character of the real Martin Landau. Food for thought...
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:19:32 -0800
From: Sfcafeguy@aol4tag.com
Subject: Evacuating Alphans on a Moment's Notice
> Sorry if this upsets anybody.
Hi Ronald:
I'm not upset at all -- it's just a TV show :) -- but in the spirit of
respectful and productive discussion, I do think a return shortly after
Breakaway and a return from Piri are comparing apples and oranges.
Remembering that multiple sources have stated that Alpha had 40 Eagles (give
or take, depending on losses or repairs at any given point in time), let's do
Piri first.
Piri is an easy evacuation because they took all the Eagles with them and
left Koenig one should he decide to join them. All they had to do was board
and go, and just because they showed eight or however many doesn't mean
EVERYBODY was in those eight Eagles we saw. Would you really want to watch
40 shots in a row of Eagles leaving Piri?
Okay, I love Eagles, I probably would. :)
Now Breakaway:
Boarding everyone up in Eagles immediately after Breakaway is impossible, and
that moon was travelling pretty fast initially. All the functional Eagles
were tied up in disbursing the nuclear waste, not sitting around just waiting
for liftoff. (We know this since Carter had to resort to taking Simmonds'
Eagle up to check out the situation.) All the while the clock is ticking and
the Earth is getting more and more out of range.
Alpha has five launch pads at the main base and some others at outlying
research stations (as seen in "The Exiles" and other episodes). Sticking
with the number 311 for convenience sake, and remembering that an Eagle
carries from 6 to 10 people depending on the type, even if they had all those
Eagles (which we already know they didn't at that point) you still have to
allow for travel tube time to the launch pads, loading up the Eagles, and
getting people away in groups of six to ten. That's something like (at
leasts) ten launches in a row for each of the main launch pads. And even if
you say they can launch an Eagle every 15 minutes, we're talking about
something like 2.5 hours PER PAD under best case scenario. And with the
clock ticking the whole time, and the stakes increasing every second like
that, the panic would escalate and it would be a mob scene. No matter how
intelligent or highly trained the group, someone's going to break and once it
starts it's a powderkeg.
And all the while the moon is getting farther and farther away and closer and
closer to being out of range of Earth entirely. Should Koenig send a lucky
few on the chance that they will make it, because clearly they won't all make
it? Only the first ones might. And what about the ones who are left? The
ones who are stuck on Alpha, only now there aren't enough people to keep the
base functional. Tough call. Does Koenig sentence half or so of the Alphans
to death so that the rest can return to Earth, assuming of course it's
possible for any of them to return successfully?
Koenig (the writers) made A LOT of stupid decisions, but I don't think this
is one of them.
Robert
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:22:04 -0800
From: Amardeep_Chana@xn.xerox4tag.com (Chana,Amardeep)
Subject: Why they didn't just fly back to Earth.
Conditions at Breakaway were not as ideal as on Piri:
(1) Except for the 6 eagles operating at the waste site, the rest of
the fleet was being modified for the dispersion task. This suggests
that many did not have passenger modules.
(2) From Alpha, you can only launch a few eagles at a time due to the
limited number of launch pads and the time it takes to move ships onto
them. On Piri, everyone went up at once (I'm surprised there were no
collisions! Eagles have a terrible field of view.)
(3) Alpha and possibly the eagle bays were structurally damaged by the
accident.
(4) Numerous people were injured and needed medical attention.
As far as Koenig wanting to be a dictator, well, his occupation answers
that question. Incompetent boob? He has his moments. There is a
little bit of Homer Simpson in everyone. Though I don't think Simmons
(or is it Simmonds?) would have had a successful mutiny as he really
doesn't have the operational knowledge to lead a safe and effective
evacuation of the base.
Amardeep
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:29:10 -0800
From: Amardeep_Chana@xn.xerox4tag.com (Chana,Amardeep)
Subject: Re: Moonbase Controversy (Was Koenig powerhungry?)
I don't think it was ever suggested that the evacuation took place any
faster than the aforementioned 48 hours. The passage of time was
really vague during the evacuation... days could have passed while
Koenig recuperated from his wounds and the others prepared for the move.
Also, I doubt only 10 eagles are a part of the operation. Only a few
were shown due to obvious special effects limitations.
Amardeep
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:41:04 -0800
From: Gary Girouard (GGirouard@ri44hosp.edu)
Subject: Re: Moonbase Controversy (Was Koenig powerhungry?) -Reply
also note how fast they evacuated in ab chrysalis, brian the brain, and
sceance spectre, got that to a science!!! gary
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 14:43:32 -0800
From: Gary Girouard (GGirouard@ri44hosp.edu)
Subject: Re: Evacuating Alpha and a Krazed Koenig -Reply
point to ponder, when the moon and the size of it blew out of orbit would
not the moon at that speed create its own gravitational pull, therefore
putting Alans eagle into the moons orbit? gary
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 17:20:19 -0800
From: "Stephen M. Arenburg" (arenburg@phobos.astro.uwo4tag.ca)
Subject: Re: Evacuating Alpha and a Krazed Koenig -Reply
Gravitational pull is a function of an objects mass only. The
moon has gravity, and it's motion (non-relativistic) will not change it.
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 16:38:05 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Subject: Evacuation and Koenig the Tyrant
Well, that stirred things up!
There might indeed be some really crazy people out there who were upset.
Just like that lady alternate juror in the Whitewater Trial in Arkansas who
was showing up for court dressed in a Star Trek Next Generation Uniform,
complete with phaser, tricorder, and combadge.
It seems to me that a lot of you are proponents of a "1999 Orthodoxy" .
Some dogmas of which are:
1. It takes lots of time and planning to evacuate.
2. It takes lots (~40) eagles to evacuate.
3. They were in terrible shape after the Area2 explosion.
4. Koenig couldn't possibly be a tyrant.
People: Believe the evidence of your own eyes:
THERE WERE ONLY 11 EAGLES ON PIRI! ALL THE ALPHANS FIT INTO 10-11 EAGLES!
It took less than 10 minutes for those 10 eagles to take off from alpha when
they ent down to Piri.
Piri was exploding as the eagles took off. Piri was a far more damaging
environment to take off from than Alpha after the Area2 explosion. Yet
they did it sucessfully.
Believe the evidence of your own eyes:
THERE WERE NOT 40 EAGLES AT AREA 2 WHEN IT BLEW UP!
40 ships flying into and out of someplace shorter than a aircraft runway?
That's an air traffic control nightmare! Far worse than my scenario of
10 eagles quickly getting off 5 pads.
Believe your eyes! They didn't
commit all 40 to Area 2. Alan says "They're all committed" because some
are committed to Area 2, and the rest were committed to other functions,
such as "standby" (Cellini tried hijack a "standby eagle").
These eagles standby as life rafts (and serve other functions). If an
oceanliner faces the possiblity of being smashed by an iceberg, would
the captian endanger all his lifeboats in an attempt to send the crew out with
icepicks to try break up the iceberg before the collision? No! He would only
commit whatever number he could spare, and keep a sufficient number of
lifeboats in reserve in case the dispersion plan fails.
I didn't see many injuries in "Breakaway". Simmons head bandage was quite tiny.
If they were concerned about their health, then they had good reason to be
alarmed about staying (for a long, long time) on a moon that more polluted
than Chernoble or Hiroshima.
How could they have become adept at evacuation before Piri,
when in fact, they never practiced it in any episode before Piri?
The only other evacuations were in "A B Crysalis" and "Seance Spectre",
which were both after Piri!
Evacuation was something that they were as ready for in "Breakaway" as
any other episode, possibly more so. The Computer analysis program
existed in "Breakaway". Exodus existed before the explosion. All the same
kinds of accidents (reactor meltdowns etc) that could happen in deep space could
happen in Earth orbit. A new reason-to-be-ready-to-evacuate doesn't
necessarily imply that they found new-and-better ways to-be-ready-to-evacuate.
If anything, they had FEWER RESOURCES as time went on, not more.
"We cannot survive indefinitely" Koenig said in "War Games".
They also admitted in "Mission of the Darians." The moon is not rich in
resources like the earth. To make new eagles and other equipment, they would
need PLASTICS as well as metal. And plastics require organic matter.
The moon is quite lacking in petroleum and other sources of carbon. (There
never were any dinosaurs on the moon, to die and turn into oil & coal).
These replacement eagles that everyone theorizes about would have
to have been built out of moonrocks! They might have found metals on the moon,
but not much organic matter. And they needed plastics to survive corrosion
in "Immunity Syndrome". They needed graphite to avoid corrosion in "Last Sunset"
YOU NEED PLASTICS FOR AIRTIGHT SEALS. To build these replacement eagles, and
all the structures blown up in various episodes
(Force of Life etc) the alphans would have to have become as cannibalistic
with their plastic as the Darians were with protein.
Here's more 1999 heresy:
That Koenig was a tyrant can been seen in how he made Kano, Paul, and Victor
just "disappear". HE PURGED THEM!!! A good tyrant eliminates all possible
opposition, and after all the times they mutinied (Piri, Collision Course, etc)
Koenig and his right hand henchman Verdeschi, eliminated these 3 rivals for
power. Was there even a "head of security" before Tony? No! Koenig created
the office for his goon Verdeschi! Just like Stalin eliminated his potential
rivals (even loyal followers) through the secret police/security forces/KGB.
It is also clear what motivated Koenig's craze for control:
He was really sore about missing out on the chance to command the Ultra Mission,
and how Commisioner Dixon grounded him. Koenig wanted to go exploring, but
bad luck and bureaucrats stood in his way. As the moon blasted out of orbit,
Koenig saw his chance to go on the greatest exploration trip ever! Why else
was it that Koenig was virtually always leading the Eagle landing parties?
I admit, its just a TV show.
Next month I will propose some other crazy theory, and challenge you all to
disprove it! (Maybe Helena was really in control all along , , , , )
Ronald
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 19:41:26 -0800
From: Anthony (anthonyd@zeus.argo4tag.net)
Subject: Re:
Ronald:
It's always nice to see my old posts again...I do so much like to read
my own writing. :-)
I was going to write what others have already...so I won't...but I will
add one other thing...keep in mind that these people just went thru a
DISASTER! This isn't your average house burning down...this is the *moon*
being ripped from Earth orbit and tossed into space...think about it for a
moment...would you have the right frame of mind to jump into an Eagle and
head back to Earth? Would you know which direction Earth was in? I mean, the
moon would have had to be traveling pretty fast away from Earth to be
released from it's gravitational force...and, even from Jupiter, the flight
back to Earth would be a LONG one, that without the right resources (food)
could hardly be made in an Eagle...how smelly would an Eagle be after a few
months in space traveling back to Earth???
Anthony
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 05:35:29 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Subject: Evacuation Heresies Book III.
1. They sure did catch up with Alpha when they left exploding Piri. If
anything, they would have been less familiar navigating around in the
Piri system than the Solar System.
2. They were just waking up from being mesmerized by the Guardian too.
They flew their 11 eagles very well for having just been lobotomized a
few minutes earlier. After waking up in the morning, could any of us
fly an eagle as well as they did, without a cup of coffee first?
3. Exploding Piri was a nastier place to take off from than the speeding Moon
in Breakaway.
4. They could have used the same navigation system to get back to Earth as
they used to get off Piri and back to Alpha (their eyeballs ?) How could
they have known the moon's course as it escaped the Guardian's grip?
5. They're professionals. One test of being an astronaut is your ability
to defecate into a plastic bag. Sailors live in submarines for months too.
Just because its discomforting doesn't mean that they can't take it.
Cellini survived in in a lot smaller spaceship for 6 months on the trip
back from Ultra. If Helena couldn't stand to go without washing her
immutable hair for a while, then she can stay behind. They could all
shave their heads and done away with shampoo, like in Alien3. The Pilgrims
live on ships for months as they came to Plymouth Rock, surley the alphans
could put up with it too.
Ronald Dudley
1999 Revisionist Historian
(I've found a niche! The 1999 Movie should be directed by Oliver Stone!)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 07:20:54 -0800
From: Erkki Rautio (trerra@uta4tag.fi)
Subject: Oliver Stone as the S99 director...?
Uhh, what a scary thought! I
wonder how he could mix to S99
Vietnam War, the US political
conspiracies and serial killers,
with some Val Kilmer as Jim
Morrison thrown in...? ;) Maybe
it would be fun!!!
ERkki
Tampere, Finland
trerra@uta.fi
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 10:07:45 -0800
From: atomicpossum@usa.pipe44line.com (Mr. Wonderful)
Subject: Krazed Koenig--two cents
As for why Alpha wasn't evacuated immediately following the explosion,
I can't say, other than it would have really made for a short series...
On a very similar criticism, however, look no further than the present
form of the Paramount plague, Star Trek:Voyager...In THEIR first episode,
the ever-intelligent Captain Janeway (for those of you who dislike Helena,
be glad for what you've got, it could have been MULGREW) insists on blowing
up the station that is their only link for home, and all these 24th century
Einsteins never stop to think that maybe we could put a-bomb-with-a-timer
on board rather than blow it up BEFORE we use it...
Sometimes first episodes are a little rough to get the premise
moving....and there are potential answers for 1999's logic...
--
Jon "Mr. Wonderful" Stadter
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:19:28 -0800
From: "Stephen M. Arenburg" (arenburg@phobos.astro.uwo4tag.ca)
Subject: Re: your mail
Escape speed of the moon is 1.5 km /s. That's slow as far as
space speeds go. A good air-air missile travels faster. Eagles are
supposed to be equipped with artificial gravity and nuclear engines. The
average acceleration of the moon after the waste dumps went up was about
15 g's , and allan could keep up with it. Plotting courses is relatively
easy: it requires orbital mechanics and about an hour of free time for a
complete solution, and a quick and dirty solution (the moon's rather big)
takes about 2 minutes.
On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Ronald Dudley wrote:
> Subject: Evacuation Heresies Book III.
> 1. They sure did catch up with Alpha when they left exploding Piri.
Compare velocities.
> 2. They were just waking up from being mesmerized by the Guardian too.
> They flew their 11 eagles very well for having just been lobotomized a
> few minutes earlier. After waking up in the morning, could any of us
> fly an eagle as well as they did, without a cup of coffee first?
Any military pilot. That's what training is for. Actually the
Alphans were a sloppy lot...
> 3. Exploding Piri was a nastier place to take off from than the speeding Moon
> in Breakaway.
But like getting shot at, it's a good motivator!
> 4. They could have used the same navigation system to get back to Earth as
> they used to get off Piri and back to Alpha (their eyeballs ?) How could
> they have known the moon's course as it escaped the Guardian's grip?
See above. However you would expect an Eagle to be equipped with
a half decent navigation computer.
> 5. They're professionals.
[....]
> Just because its discomforting doesn't mean that they can't take it.
From some of the "specs" of the Eagle the trip back should have
been a snap.
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 17:12:17 -0800
From: Sylvain Lavoie (lavoies@nbnet.nb4tag.ca)
Subject: Just tinking!!
I was reading the other day "The physics of Star Trek". In that book they said that
there was no way that the Enterprise could accelerate at full impulse in 5 seconds power without
killing all the people onboard. Now in Space:1999, after the explosion if the moon was
accelerating 15g's how did all the Alphans survived? They must have hidden some Inertial Dampers
on the moon!!!
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 1996 13:59:17 -0800
From: "Stephen M. Arenburg" (arenburg@phobos.astro.uwo4tag.ca)
Subject: Re: Just tinking!!
The short answer is: Yes. If you watch Breakaway, at the end of
the acceleration, Victor Bergman gets up, walks over to the computer (in
what appears to be normal gravity, gets a readout from computer, and
says: "the acceleration is down to 3 g's". Most people dont walk around
in 3g's, especially Victor with his artificial heart. Thus: inertial
dampeners (factor 3:1). I also doubt that Victor could survive more than
4 to 5 g's - which puts an upper limit to the moon's acceleration at 12 -
15 g's.
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 05:38:06 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Subject: Exodus
Something I got from Mark (MMeskin@aol.com)
on Mon Apr 1 21:28 EST 1996 :
> I have to disagree with you Ron. I think a few people could have made it
> back to Earth but not everyone. I'll explain my reasons, first, when they
> were all on Piri the Eagles were all available instanstly. On Alpha only
> four or five can launch at a time. Then the lifts have to cycle to bring up
> the next Eagle. Only two of the pads are linked to the main hangar I think.
> How many eagles are stored beneath the other pads? If most of the eagles are
> in the main hangar youre talking a lot of activities for two lifts. Also, in
> Breakaway all the Eagles were "commited"(Carter to Koenig in his office) to
> removal of nuclear waste. Furthermore , only six Eagles were completely
> converted and operating when area 2 blew. When the Eagles are converted the
> passenger modules are removed and a whinch setup is in place of it( I think).
>
> The other Eagles( 32 if I'm correct. 40 were stationed on MBA, Koenig
> crashed one, another bit it while operating on remote and 6 were fully
> converted) were under going conversion in the hangar bay. Now if you assume
> some damage to MBA from the Explosion at area 2, damaged lifts, damaged
> ships, possible hangar collapse,( as in Wargames) you begin to see that
> getting home would be that simple. Even if no damage occurred in the hangar
> most of those ships would be in a ripped down state and not operational.
>
> Getting back to 31 people per Eagle on piri... I once put 4 people in my old
> Pontiac Fiero which has only 2 seats and a small cabin, but it was durring a
> snowstorm late at night and well it was very IMPORTANT that those 2 girls
> didnt have to walk home in the snow! It was a short drive(whew!)and very
> crowded. My point is that on a short juant you could really crowd thos eagles
> if need be.( The moon appeared to be in a low orbit around Piri)Now on long
> flight the life support system could not support so many people( As seen in
> BLACK SUN) so you would need more than 10 eagles to get home.
>
> Just my own spin on this,
>
> Mark
>
> Moonbase Custodian
Great. Another Eagle-Counting Orthodox Believer. "Committed" Eagles doesn't
explicitly say committed to what. 6 were committed to Area2. Others were
committed as lifeboats, something the alphans would need at all times, like
anybody in an oceanliner. And from "Piri", that requires only 10. You can
find a reference to such "standby" eagles in "Dragon's Domain". "Standby"
means "Lifeboat".
You people seem to be glossing over the issues stated in "Breakaway".
You people seem to instead dwell on these "the eagles were damaged" arguments.
In "Breakaway":
Lack of eagles was never a consideration.
Damaged eagles were never a consideration.
Slow launch pads were never a consideration.
The issues actually considered in computer's analysis of the situation were:
1. Moon on unknown trajectory
2. Constantly changing G forces due to Moon's movement away from Earth.
3. Insufficient data to compute flight plan.
The issues actually considered in Koenig's statement of the situation were:
1. No travel plots
Nothing about damaged eagles, or slow launch pads. Just a lack of direction.
LACK OF TRANSPORTATION WAS NOT AN IMPEDIMENT.
THE ONLY IMPEDIMENT WAS NAVIGATION/DIRECTION,
a problem they seemed to have easily solved at the end of "Piri".
You eagle-counting orthodox believers just can't admit that it was a
judgement call on Koenig's part. Instead you try to make the situation
into some kind of inescapable conclusion due to a lack of eagles.
You fantasize that it was some simple, indisputable math problem.
You reason that "Koenig just had to say the thing that he said", therefore
you come up with scenarios that deny any possiblity of a BAD JUDGEMENT or
a CORRUPT JUDGEMENT on Koenig's part.
And Koenig really was a BAD, CORRUPT PERSON, out to exploit his fellow alphans.
On Sat, 23 Mar 1996 17:52:05
logan@pop.erols.com asked:
> Was there even an episode that showed how Bergman died or was it
> just summarized in the season 2 voice-over by Helena Russell?
> I, for one, would love to know how the old coot kicked off.
And on Sat, 23 Mar 1996 20:23:51
Bill Greer replied:
> There was never an episode that showed how Bergman died. Nor was there, to my
> knowledge, even a Dr. Russell voice-over explanation. He just mysteriously
> disappeared.
1999 Revisionist History, Book IV
(a completely alternative intrepretation of 1999's events)
Koenig made Victor disappear. Koenig made potential rivals for
command dissappear. Bergman was just too smart. Kano could turn Computer
against him. And Morrow was the natural next-in-line commander. Had Simmons
instigated a coup against Koenig, Simmons would have pushed Morrow to replace
Koenig as commander, and try to turn Morrow into a puppet.
That Koenig was a tyrant can been seen in how he made Kano, Paul, and Victor
just "disappear". HE PURGED THEM!!! A good tyrant eliminates all possible
opposition, and after all the times they mutinied (Piri, Collision Course, etc)
Koenig and his right hand henchman Verdeschi, eliminated these 3 rivals for
power. Was there even a "head of security" before Tony? No! Koenig created
the office for his goon Verdeschi, who was previously an unknown, unimpressive
security thug. Tony rose from anonymity to the job of top cop because he
carried out Koenig's secret order to eliminate Victor et al., and make it look
like some kind of accident.
Koenig as a dictator explains so much. Koenig didn't want to go back to Earth
at the end of Breakaway because it would have been so humiliating. "Koenig, we
sent you up there to get that Meta Probe launched. Instead, the space dock was
destroyed, the Probeship destroyed, quakes and tidal waves have wrecked Earth,
& the moon is gone forever. You're an utter failure! You're grounded for life!"
they would have told him, just like the captain of the Exxon Valdez.
It is also clear what motivated Koenig's craze for control:
He was really sore about missing out on the chance to command the Ultra Mission,
and how Commisioner Dixon grounded him. Koenig wanted to go exploring, but
bad luck and bureaucrats stood in his way. As the moon blasted out of orbit,
Koenig saw his chance to go on the greatest exploration trip ever! Why else
was it that Koenig was virtually always leading the Eagle landing parties?
The only times Koenig wasn't on an eagle, were the times he sensed danger,
and he then sent someone else, who usually got killed.
Contrast what happened to the other alphans in "Another Time Anothe Place".
These alphans made it off alpha because they weren't obstructed by their
Koenig. He was dead. Neither Koenig nor Carter ever crashed an eagle that
they didn't survive. Therefore, the other Koenig's death must have been
intentional, sabotage! The other Bergman outsmarted the other Koenig, and
sabotaged his eagle. That's why those other alphans were able to make it off
their other moon to a new home. Otherwise, that other Koenig would probably
have blown up more nuclear waste, so as to send the moon off again.
Look at who was in charge and who is missing from both alphas. In one,
Koenig is gone, and Bergman, Kano, & Morrow are alive. In the other,
Bergman, Kano, & Morrow are gone, and Koenig goes on exploring, taking the
alphans with him. Carter was left alive because he was the most loyal, and
he was an explorer at heart too.
Koenig's ever increasing grip on power manifested itself in him making everyone
wear those picture ID's. Everybody had to have proper identification. Everyone
had their proper place. Control, Control, Control. Koenig put the horizontal
and vertical pin stripes on the uniforms. The stripes intersect over the heart,
so that Koenig and the security people could aim their guns better so as to
kill on the first shot. This was to discourage a coup d'etat. Everyone walked
around with targets on their chests.
Differences in RANK became even more exaggerated as time went on. Koenig's own
fashion stood to set him apart from everyone else. Only Koenig could wear the
orange coat down to planets. Koenig was even experimenting with a bizzare,
almost messianic-looking white frock in the beginning of "Metamorph". Had
Koenig's story gone on for another season, he probably would started wearing a
crown, and carrying some kind of scepter/staff.
I have read in the "Prisoner Companion" that some people interpret "Prisoner"
as showing that the ruler of the Village, Prisoner #1 was actually Prisoner
#6 all along, based on numerous things, especially the unmasking of #1 in the
final episode, revealing Patrick McGoohan's face. Is Koenig-as-Dictator any
less far-fetched? Isn't the irony seductive? Or do you prefer that there is
no truth deeper than the superficial observation that characters say what
they truthfully think, and are really the nice people they seem to be?
Disprove it if you can!
Consider:
If you were told in 1977, after seeing Star Wars, that Ben Kenobi was a liar,
and that Darth Vader was actually the father of not only Luke Skywalker but
also Leia, would you have believed it? It would have sounded like crazy
revisionist conspiracy theory. But it would have been the truth also.
(Nutty conspiracy theories are always much more interesting than actual events)
Ronald Dudley
1999 Revisionist Historian
[the 1999 Movie can be directed by Olive Stone! with other Stone groupies as:
Michael Douglas (Wall Street) as a very corrupt Koenig
or Tom Berenger (Platoon)
or Tommy Lee Jones (JFK, Natural Born Killers, Heaven & Earth)
Anthony Hopkins (Nixon) as Bergman
Joan Allen(Pat Nixon) as Helena
Val Kilmer (The Doors) as Morrow
Woodie Harrelson (Natural Born Killers) as Carter
Juliette Lewis (Naturan Born Killers) as Sandra
Charlie Sheen (Platoon, Wall Street) as Verdeschi
or Gary Oldman (Lee Harvey Oswald) as Verdeschi
Forrest WHittaker (Platoon) as Kano ]
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 07:00:37 -0800
From: monte@en4tag.com (Monte Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Exodus
A brilliant analysis, to be sure - but you're missing the forest for the
trees. Do you actually think the nuclear chain reaction was an *accident*?
Please! Koenig was obviously working under orders from the CFR/Trilateral
Commision/UN/Illuminati to blast the moon out of orbit. The resulting
environmental chaos on Earth would make it trivial to implement the New
World Order and put the Hidden Masters in control, as they've been
planning for 400+ years.
Koenig was a puppet. He followed orders, and his reward was the moon.
{g}
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Monte Ferguson monte@en.com
Do not shoot food!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:47:15 -0800
From: Sfcafeguy@aol4tag.com
Subject: Re: Exodus
Congratulations Ronald Dudley. I think that's the record for the longest
(non-article reprint) Space: 1999 list post EVER! I had to go out for fresh
supplies TWICE while reading it! Phew!
[In my best William Shatner hosting Saturday Night Live voice.]
PEE PUHL! It's ... JUST ... a ... tee VEE ... SHow!
Sorry, Ronald. I attribute the computer not mentioning Eagle load-up time
while the moon is hurtling out of range as a writer's error (although I also
think it could be argued that it falls under any one of the stated reasons
the computer gives as a consequence of the reasons. See my old post [above].
I don't think it was possible.
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:47:55 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Ah yes, the old "the writers forgot something" fix.
The typical refuge of an "its mathematically impossible" defender of orthodoxy.
"The launch pads are too slow", "There weren't enough eagles", these are
simple quantifiable problems with numerical answers.
If it were so mathematically simple, then even the computer could have figured
it out that return to earth was impossible. But instead, the computer put
the decision on Koenig. His decision was not fixed by the circumstances.
He could have been daring, cautious, or corrupt. His decision says something
about his character. Why do you eagle-counters try to argue that there was
no doubt, and that the decision says nothing about Koenig's character because
the decision was indisputable? KOENIG HAD OPTIONS! Why do you instead prefer
to believe that Koenig had no choice, but the writers forgot to tell us
why the other choices were not possible? Why do you prefer a bad writer to a
korrupt Koenig?
Piri:
> just because they showed eight or however many doesn't mean
> EVERYBODY was in those eight Eagles we saw.
Ah yes, the old "there were more eagles than you actually saw" fix.
The typical refuge of an eagle-counting defender of orthodoxy.
You cling to your dogma of a nice Koenig so tightly, that you will
believe in a shortage of special effects rather than beleive that
they were masters of their art who intended to show us precisely 10 eagles.
> Koenig (the writers) made A LOT of stupid decisions, but I don't think this
> is one of them.
Why is bad writing and a nice Koenig preferable to great writing that affords
alternative interpretation and a potentially Korrupt Koenig?
The writers probably did not intend an interpretation such as the
Korrupt Koenig one, but what they churned out is almost indistinguishable
from how it would look as if they did intend for us to possibly view Koenig
in a bad light. And it such a seductive possibility. And conspiracy theories
are so much more fun than your answers of "bad writing" and "not enough special
effects."
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:00:45 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
I admit it:
The writers probably did not intend an interpretation such as the
Korrupt Koenig one.
We all know who the real power-mad dictator was who killed Victor,
Paul, Kano, made everybody wear ID cards, and sent other eagle pilots
on missions too dangerous for Koenig. His name was Fred.
Ronald
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:57:13 -0800
From: Bill Greer (bgreer@tri44con.net)
Subject: Re: Koenig as a tyrant
>Koenig made Victor disappear. Koenig made potential rivals for
>command dissappear.
Ronald,
Space:1999 makes SO much more sense now. I'll buy your "revisionist" history.
Its the only way that the evolution of the show and its characters make sense!
Bill Greer
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:23:50 -0800
From: Sfcafeguy@aol4tag.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Exodus Again
Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! I can't win!
Sounds like you're viewing the show -- for it IS JUST A SHOW, Ronald!!! :) --
from an alternative universe like the one on Star Trek with the bad Spock,
Sulu, Uhura, et al.
Come back to "the good side" -- where Helena and Yasko are played by
actresses with Oscar caliber performances, and everyone on Moonbase Alpha
lives happily ever after and gets along (with bedtime stories read over the
PA system by Father Figure Koenig at the end of each day).
Okay, we did the __________ like a __________ game inspired by Allen
Barnella's "Fly Like an Eagle" signature.
How about movie titles adopted in relation to Space: 1999? Examples:
Old Yeller - John Koenig
Snow White - Every set on Alpha
The Sorrow and the Pity - Yasko's/Helena's acting
Any others?
Robert
Moonbase Alpha Director of Data and Research
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:55:56 -0800
From: Ronald Dudley (dudleyrd@expert.cc.purdue4tag.edu)
Ah, so now, you switch from saying that my analysis was incorrect to that
the show isn't worthy of analysis. Is this the last refuge of an eagle-
counting, dogmatic defender of the orthodox view of a nice Koenig?
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:02:32 -0800
From: Gary Girouard (GGirouard@ri44hosp.edu)
ron, the only way is see John, is he did what was good for the many not
just the one, he did not act as a dictator, not as a hitler figure. He kept
people alive, to me that deserves respect!!! gary
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 06:21:44 -0800
From: jquimby@utmmg.med.uth.tmc4tag.edu (Jeanette Quimby)
Subject: Koenig - Hero or dictator?
Let's look at Alpha as compared to other "isolated" communities in
"fiction/cinema".
Going back (way back) to college lit courses (and high school now) - we have
"Lord of the Flies" and recent cinema "Waterworld". Two other "different"
settings. Lord of the Flies - the strong lead, and abuse the smaller boys.
Waterworld - the sick take over,lead, and abuse the serfs.
First we need to remember, it was not Koenig's choice to be
"leader/dictator", he was placed there by circumstance. Like any "ship" in
a disaster - it is natural to look to the "captain" to learn how to survive
- and this is what the alphans "initially" did.
To use the term dictator would be inaccurate - yes, he was the sole decision
maker, but did he ever intentionally "abuse", harm, steal, set himself
higher than any other alphan? No. Look at The Metamorph - he was willing
to sacrifice himself (plus those who had gone down with him) by destroying
Mentor to save Alpha. A dictator would have made a deal with Mentor to save
himself.
He put himself on the line on other occasions for the good of Alpha, not for
the glory. He was a "working Joe" who I think was not "comfortable" in his
role of leading these people, but was more comfortable getting his hands
dirty with everyone else.
I would imagine that either after they finally found a new home, that John
Koenig would have been the "first president" and then it would have gone to
someone else. Sort of like George Washington - he helped with the American
Revolution - in a sense because of his heroism during the revolution (which
you Brits might term something else - traitor maybe? ) on behalf of the
colonies he become the first President, and then America moved on with
another leader. As long as Alpha was a "wandering ship", rank, title, and
the experience that John Koenig learned during their wanderings would make
him the most qualified.
Personally, considering Alpha's situation - an "election" to chose the most
qualified leader would make me nervous. John Koenig would have lead an
exploration team - he must have had some "leadership" qualities. Looking at
the other Alphans, it would have been difficult to determine - while in the
midst of their fight for survival - another individual who could have the
backbone and ability to lead this group.
Remember - this is all hypothetical and not based on the "on screen" time
allotment for performers (which is one of the reasons why John Koenig/Martin
Landau was on the "away teams" the majority of the time), but rather this is
based on looking at what I feel the character was.
Just my two cents.
Jeanette
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:05:03 -0800
From: Van A Plexico (plexiva@mail.auburn4tag.edu)
Subject: Re: Koenig - Hero or dictator?
Well, there you go, Jeanette--letting facts spoil a perfectly good
conspiracy theory!! Darn you! ;)
--Van #107