From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi5tag.no)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:23:15 +0000
Subject: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Martin gives an interesting perspective on DRAGON'S DOMAIN on his web site,
showing how this and THE TESTAMENT OF ARKADIA differ significantly from
earlier episodes, the first ones in particular.
Apart from the use of music and mythology, Martin, contrary to how I feel,
however, seems to feel an enhancement of the series by introduction of
"humour"; the toothbrush joke, the flower joke, Cellini's comments on his
sex life and Alan's comment as he recovers from Cellini's second knockout blow.
While I can agree that this is definitely different from the more "serious"
approach of the early episodes, for me it seemed like a step in the wrong
direction. From my point of view it seems as though the crew and cast
didn't care all that much about the series any longer, and hence put in
jokes at random just to make the episode flow without too being to demanding.
On the other hand, the path they are heading onto here is similar to
the path of Year Two. Barry Morse said that there were both economic and
artistic reasons for him not taking part in Year Two. In quite a lot of
the later Year One episode, I feel the artistic reason is showing, and
perhaps in DRAGON'S DOMAIN more than ever.
While, to me at least, Victor Bergman is perhaps the most interesting
figure in the early episodes, in DRAGON'S DOMAIN the concept of Space:1999
has changed to such a degree that his character does no longer seem all
that relevant. He is given a few odd lines, but the philosophical part
that was put to such an tremendous effect in episodes like BLACK SUN and
RING AROUND THE MOON is no longer quite as apparently visible.
On the other hand, DRAGON'S DOMAIN gives a lot of concern to the maturing
relationship between John and Helena. In some ways I feel that DRAGON'S
DOMAIN is in this respect explaining some of the parts that were not
included in the final draft for THE LAST ENEMY, another episode
concerned with matrimonial issues.
Comparing DRAGON'S DOMAIN to MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, however, is rather
devastating, I feel, at least in aspects of psychological aspects and
characterisation, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH being the finest study of
the relationship between John and Helena, as far as I can see.
I've understood that DRAGON'S DOMAIN was based on one of the
first eight early drafts, along with BREAKAWAY, BLACK SUN, MATTER OF
LIFE AND DEATH, EARTHBOUND, FULL CIRCLE, LAST SUNSET and WAR GAMES. It
was along with LAST SUNSET and WAR GAMES written by Penfold, while the
other episodes were written by seperate people.
While DRAGON'S DOMAIN in some respects seems like odd man out as a Penfold
script, more concerned with people than ideas, there seems to be a
central idea in focus of this episode as well, namely our understanding
and use of mythology in a modern context.
From a contemporary philosophical point of view, thinkers like Jean-Francois
Lyotard, for instance, the political narrative does no longer exist, a
point that also seem pregnant in Penfold's story, I believe. Lyotard did not
believe in the economic narrative either, in felt the need to focus on Freud
to explain how the economy really works ("libidial economy").
I feel there is a certain parallell in Penfold's thinking here, showing
the lack of communication between Cellini, Bergman, Koenig and Dixon,
and showing how the political narrative is substituted with a
psychologcal/mythological narrative in order to make sense out of a
world like moonbase Alpha.
Petter
From: "Mark Meskin" (plastic.gravity@new1021rock.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:18:10 -0500
You have got to be kidding.
> From: Petter Ogland
>
> While I can agree that this is definitely different from the more "serious"
> approach of the early episodes, for me it seemed like a step in the wrong
> direction. From my point of view it seems as though the crew and cast
> didn't care all that much about the series any longer, and hence put in
> jokes at random just to make the episode flow without too being to demanding.
I could not disagree more, I think you are making way too big of an
assumption based on a few jokes. The later episodes show the series
finally finding its footing, and its target. They show a cast and crew not
only confident, but also comfortable with the format. It took them a while
to decide who they were, and in some of the early episodes it really shows,
episodes like Ring around the Moon are so disjointed, confused, and poorly
thought through, they are uncomfortable just to watch, much less
understand. Another episode that lost its way is Missing Link, great idea,
great premise, but ends up being some psuedo-art nightmare, with an out of
nowhere romance subplot. The whole cast is so out of character they might
as well be sitting around in street clothes instead of costume.
By the time of Dragons Domain, the show has matured, and I believe DD makes
a wonderful complement to Black Sun, Last Sunset, Wargames, Guardian of
Piri, Collision Course, The Troubled Spirit and Another Time, Another
Place. Space:1999 has always been about tragedy and loss, the
unfriendliness of space, and how alone we all are. Dragons Domain is no
exception. This is the pentultimate Space:1999 epsiode, and cleary is the
high water mark for series 1.
> On the other hand, the path they are heading onto here is similar to
> the path of Year Two. Barry Morse said that there were both economic and
> artistic reasons for him not taking part in Year Two.
Peter, are you aware of the time frame between Series 1 and Series 2? A
whole year went by between filming. How can you say its Y2 influenced?
All of the changes that happended for Series 2 were hatched during Hiatus.
Gerry Anderson, Jonny Byrne, and even Barry Morse all state that near the
end of Series 1 the show was finally firing on all cylinders. Everyone
involved was shocked I think by the changes demanded by ITC and implimented
by Fast Freddie during the ramp up to series 2.
> While, to me at least, Victor Bergman is perhaps the most interesting
> figure in the early episodes, in DRAGON'S DOMAIN the concept of Space:1999
> has changed to such a degree that his character does no longer seem all
> that relevant.
In Dragon's Domain, the story(the whole story) is centered around Tony
Cellini, and his encounter(s) with this creature and the tragic effect it
had on his life. I believe the original draft had Alan Carter in the
cernter role, not Cellini, as a way to flesh out his character. JMS often
comments "best not to think of *what* might have been, *what is*, is
better". I think that applies here as well, the story as is,is tight,
engaging, terrifing and tragic.
> He is given a few odd lines, but the philosophical part
> that was put to such an tremendous effect in episodes like BLACK SUN
Again, he's not really central to the story, what grand speeches could he
make? In this episode Victor isn't sure what to believe, he's a scientist,
a skeptic, and Cellini has no proof, so Victor kinda sits on the fence.
> RING AROUND THE MOON is no longer quite as apparently visible.
IMHO, nothing was visible in that episode.
> MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH being the finest study of
> the relationship between John and Helena, as far as I can see.
Yes, it does, but look at the point in series at which it occurred, the 2nd
episode. No one would expect these two to have a solid relationship just a
couple of weeks after your world was turned upside down. Its contrived,
out of place, and would have worked better if it were later in the series,
after these two had time to *form* a relationship. A similiar theme is
covered in much better form in Babylon 5's "Za' ha' Dum" epsiode, in which
Sheridan, having already fallen for Delenn, is confronted by his presumed
dead wife. The build up of there relationship had been slow and natural
and the appearence of SHeridan's wife is cleary not just irony
> central idea in focus of this episode as well, namely our understanding
> and use of mythology in a modern context.
Yes, I agree
> showing the lack of communication between Cellini, Bergman, Koenig and Dixon,
Its not a lack of communication, its a hard tale to swallow, even for
Koenig, Dixon cleary thinks its crap, and Bergman is not sure what to
believe.
> and showing how the political narrative
This is absoluty essential to show how Cellini is quickly shunned and
silenced, as the powers to be move quickly to find a scape goat for the
failure of the mission. This just isn't good writing, this is the reality
of the consequences of Cellini's story. What would anyone do?
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi8gat.no)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:03:28 +0000
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
> I could not disagree more, I think you are making way too big of an
> assumption based on a few jokes. The later episodes show the series
> finally finding its footing, and its target. They show a cast and crew not
> only confident, but also comfortable with the format.
Landau, Bain et al behave in a much more confident manner, I agree, perhaps
even more comfortable with the format, although I wonder about that.
I don't feel that the complacency indicates that the show is finding its
footing and target. On the contrary, I feel that the show was developing
from an exciting experimental format to mainstream although the Brian
Johnson work was better than ever.
> It took them a while
> to decide who they were, and in some of the early episodes it really shows,
> episodes like Ring around the Moon are so disjointed, confused, and poorly
> thought through, they are uncomfortable just to watch, much less
> understand. Another episode that lost its way is Missing Link, great idea,
> great premise, but ends up being some psuedo-art nightmare, with an out of
> nowhere romance subplot.
RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK are two of the episodes that I
cherish the most. In both of these, but perhaps even to a greater extent
in the case of RING AROUND THE MOON, I feel a perfect symbiosis between
writer, director and cast. MISSING LINK is a showcase for Landau, I feel,
outstanding performance, and wonderful colaboration with guest star Peter
Cushing, Cushing being one of the finest actors ever in my opinion.
Both episodes are written by di Lorenzo, although partly rewritten by
Penfold, di Lorenzo seemed to have left the series partly because he
felt there was too much rewriting on his initial contributions I understand,
and both episodes are directed by Ray Austin, who also directed the
third di Lorenzo draft, ALPHA CHILD. I've also speculated about whether
di Lorenzo had anything to do with THE GUARDIAN OF PIRI, initially
known as NOBODY'S PERFECT. From my point of view GUARDIAN OF PIRI seems
similar to the three well known di Lorenzo script both in content and
style, but nobody have confirmed this. Penfold was only credited as a
consultant, and from what I've understood, the original script has no
name on it.
From my point of view RING AROUND THE MOON comes close to the perfect
Space:1999 episode. I find it magnificently written with all it's reflections
on science, computers and knowledge, put forward in a wonderfully
dramatic setting, everything happening at the same time. The dramatic
content of the episode is further enhanced by Austin's kinestetic
direction, his best episode regardless of content from my point of view,
and the actors give some of their best performances ever, in particular
Landau, Bain and Morse are at peak I feel. BLACK SUN is the only episode where
Barry Morse gives a performance as good as this.
RING AROUND THE MOON is an episode that is wonderful to watch again,
again and again. Fantastic!
> By the time of Dragons Domain, the show has matured, and I believe DD makes
> a wonderful complement to Black Sun, Last Sunset, Wargames, Guardian of
> Piri, Collision Course, The Troubled Spirit and Another Time, Another
> Place. Space:1999 has always been about tragedy and loss, the
> unfriendliness of space, and how alone we all are. Dragons Domain is no
> exception. This is the pentultimate Space:1999 epsiode, and cleary is the
> high water mark for series 1.
What is interesting about DRAGON'S DOMAIN is the Penfold/Crichton
collaboration, I feel, and how it feels close to the inital concept of
the series. From what I've understood, DRAGON'S DOMAIN, or whatever it
was originally called, was written as one of eight scripts before the
shooting of BREAKAWAY. BLACK SUN, LAST SUNSET and WAR GAMES were three
other such scripts, and like those episodes, I feel there is a try to
dig more into how the environtment of the clinical moonbase and the
Breakaway disaster motivates the behaviour of the Alphans.
Apart from the initial eight scripts, not too many of the remaining
16 episodes explores this to a great extent, the Johnny Byrne episodes
ANOTHER TIME, ANOTHER PLACE and THE TESTAMENT OF ARKADIA being two very
nice exceptions where the initial Space:1999 idea is being put into full
use, even if the main theme in both of these were even more efficiently
explored in the Byrne influenced MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
Episodes of the the GUARDIAN OF PIRI, COLLISION COURSE and THE TROUBLED
SPIRIT does not make very much use of initial premise of the series,
just like RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK. Nevertheless, from my
point of view all of these five are very good episodes indeed.
> Petter, are you aware of the time frame between Series 1 and Series 2? A
> whole year went by between filming. How can you say its Y2 influenced?
Not influenced by Year Two, but rather the other way around. From where I'm
standing it looks like the series had developed in a direction that opens for
the changes that were made for Year Two. The difference in style of acting in
DRAGON'S DOMAIN and, say, BLACK SUN or perhaps RING AROUND THE MOON which I find
even better in this respect, seems to me to be highly contrasting. The contrast
is not as vivid as in Year One vs. Year Two, but, nevertheless, the style
of acting in the "humorous" scenes feel very Year Two to me.
> All of the changes that happended for Series 2 were hatched during Hiatus.
> Gerry Anderson, Jonny Byrne, and even Barry Morse all state that near the
> end of Series 1 the show was finally firing on all cylinders.
Did Barry Morse say that? I know Gerry Anderson was happy, but I didn't
know that he felt the series was at it best near the end of Series 1.
This is a bit surprising, but, on the other hand, Gerry Anderson was
mostly concerned about the finacial and technical aspects of the series,
I suppose, and episodes like MISSION OF THE DARIANS and DRAGON'S DOMAIN
look perhaps more spectacular than BLACK SUN and MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
In the case of Johnny Byrne, I also find this statement peculiar, feeling
that he made equally find contributions to the series all along, some
of the best being in the beginning, some in the middle and some in the end.
> I believe the original draft had Alan Carter in the
> cernter role, not Cellini, as a way to flesh out his character. JMS often
> comments "best not to think of *what* might have been, *what is*, is
> better". I think that applies here as well, the story as is,is tight,
> engaging, terrifing and tragic.
I agree to this, but, nevertheless, the aggressive style of Cellini is
quite similar to Alan during the first four episodes, I think. They
both wear a yellow sleeve and seem to be on friendly terms. Even if
the story is about Cellini, I feel Cellini is more of an Alan Carter type
than a John Koenig type, although the episode seems to link the psychology of
Koenig and Cellini to a certain extent.
Petter
From: "Willey, Martin J" (martin.willey@eds4tya.com)
Subject: RE: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:27:57 +0100
Here's a quote from Johnny Byrne (on
http://209.132.68.46/publications/art89.htm)..
>If you look at the episodes in the order in which they were made you will
>see that the progression of people who are fairly frightened and fairly
>clueless reflected the screen writers' frightened, clueless attitude as
>to stepping out into the unknown, too. 'Coz we were out there at the
>same time. When we became more familiar, our touches became more adept,
>responses more sure, weariness more pronounced as the further we went
>out. By episode 48 there wasn't a situation out there that we couldn't
>deal with! But on the way out we didn't know where the hell we were and
>what the hell was happening to us - and that was reflected in the
>stories. After a few physical disasters we had we felt we could cope and
>there was a huge sigh of relief at the end of the first series. And
>there was a great regret as well because we knew that we had done
>something really special but we knew that it wasn't perfect. Not at all.
I think there is a clear progression in the first series, from the
unanswerable mysteries of the first episodes to the more confident
approach later on. The writers, like the Alphans, didn't know what they
were doing at first, hence the more experimental early shows. Soon the
writers found a direction, the stories are not so serious and
impenetrable, and the acting is less deadly earnest. Of course it also
means the stories are more conventional science fiction, more focus on
personality driving the plot and there's a lighter touch to the
characters. Sometimes this is successful, sometimes not. Like the early
"experimental" episodes, although I tend to like them more in part than
as a whole.
Contrast what we learn about Lee Russell and Helena's former life in
MoLaD (virtually nothing) with Cellini and Koenig in DD (complete with
flashback scenes). DD makes the much the same statement as MoLaD - they
are things we don't know about out there and we have to just trust
someone about it sometimes. But I think it is much more effective
because we focus as much on the characters as the profound mystery of it
all.
Having just said that, I think one of the early episodes, Black Sun, is
almost equally as good as DD. Because it focused on the characters, and
it injected a little humour into it. It's those elements, in episodes
like Black Sun and Dragon's Domain, that the cast - Landau, Bain and
Morse- consistently cite as their favourite moments. Mine too.
> I agree to this, but, nevertheless, the aggressive style of Cellini is
> quite similar to Alan during the first four episodes, I think. They
> both wear a yellow sleeve and seem to be on friendly terms. Even if
> the story is about Cellini, I feel Cellini is more of an Alan Carter type
> than a John Koenig type, although the episode seems to link the psychology of
> Koenig and Cellini to a certain extent.
Good points. The early Carter was written as an Italian character-
Captain Catani. So the character would have changed from Catani- Carter-
Calder (the script name)-to Cellini.
Martin
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi1tag.no)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:46:20 +0000
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
This [the Johnny Byrne quote and the next paragraph from the previous
note] was a nice summing up so far, I feel. A development from the
experimental to the conventional seems like a good way of putting it.
I'm not sure about how to understand "personality driving the plot", but
in some of the earlier episodes, BREAKAWAY, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH,
BLACK SUN, RING AROUND THE MOON etc. the Alphans seemed more to be the
victims of circumstances than to be driving the plot.
The initial BREAKAWAY catastrophe is a fine example of this, I feel. For
very much of the episode the Alphans have no clue as to what is going on,
and when they finally find out, there is not much they can do. The
conversation between Simmonds and Victor is rather good viewed in this
perspective, I feel. Simmonds seems to be under the apprehention that
everything can be solved, pragmatics he display even more intensly in
EARTHBOUND, while Koenig, and Bergman in particular, display quiet desperation.
Quite fascinating, and a very good episode indeed.
The way Koenig handles the situation in MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH is also
magnificent, the way I see it, neglecting all warnings, not at least
Bergman's advice just about when they are about to take of for Terra Nova.
Soon everything is out of control. His most trusted people are dying
horrible deaths, the paradise turn into a disaster area and, finally, the
moon even explodes. A fantastic episode from my point of view.
In BLACK SUN there is the same lack of control, perhaps even more pregnant
as the moon is drawn into extintion as a spaceship Titanic. The situation
is hopeless. Bergman is comparing the situation as to how Helena would
be caring for a dying patient as he and Koenig are testing the force field.
A devastatingly superb episode.
This early approach is, of course, very different from the later situations
where they feel more at home, having more tactics and confidence, and,
certainly, more in the style of personality driving the plot. DRAGON'S
DOMAIN is a good example of this style, indeed, although episode #5,
EARTHBOUND, also has a more conventional approach, not too different from
DRAGON'S DOMAIN, come to think of it.
With entry no. 6, ANOTHER TIME ANOTHER PLACE, it's back to chaos again,
although this, like most of Byrne's episodes, has a more linear narrative.
With MISSING LINK we're back to the experimental style again, but then
one would almost have to wait until WAR GAMES for finding something quite
matching the early episodes. While WAR GAMES is a wonderfully convoluted
episode, Koenig and the rest seem much more experience from living in
space by now as compared to RING AROUND THE MOON or BLACK SUN, and while
being mildly chaotic, WAR GAMES is much more straight forward than, say,
RING AROUND THE MOON or perhaps even MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
> Having just said that, I think one of the early episodes, Black Sun, is
> almost equally as good as DD. Because it focused on the characters, and
> it injected a little humour into it. It's those elements, in episodes
> like Black Sun and Dragon's Domain, that the cast - Landau, Bain and
> Morse- consistently cite as their favourite moments. Mine too.
I know that Landau and Morse were very happy with BLACK SUN, but they were
equally happy with DRAGON'S DOMAIN? At least in the case of Barry
Morse I wonder a bit about this, but, of course, DRAGON'S DOMAIN is a fine
episode in many ways. I'll probably have a new look at it tonight.
Petter
From: Mark Meskin (plastic.gravity@new1021rock.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:51:45 -0500
>By episode 48 there wasn't a situation out there that we couldn't deal with!
I think he's talking about how by the end of season 2 Freddy has morphed
the Alphans from unwilling travellers on a runaway moon into Star Trek type
space cowboys.
>I think there is a clear progression in the first series, from the
>unanswerable mysteries of the first episodes to the more confident
>approach later on.
The mystery was still there, it just was handled in a way that also had a
story and plot.
>The writers, like the Alphans, didn't know what they
>were doing at first, hence the more experimental early shows. Soon the
>writers found a direction, the stories are not so serious and
>impenetrable,
Yes, good point.
>and the acting is less deadly earnest.
I thought the acting in some episodes(Ring around the Moon) was just plain
lousy. I don't know if it was due to lack of direction, or wrong direction
or what, or maybe its just the bad dialogue(Victor's really ludicrous
comments about Triton come to mind).
>Of course it also means the stories are more conventional science fiction,
I don't think so, take "troubled spirit", that was cleary a breakout
episode, and its also well acted and very engrossing and mildly
unsettling(the whole idea of being haunted by your own ghost).
>Contrast what we learn about Lee Russell and Helena's former life in
>MoLaD (virtually nothing)
Yes! Yes! All we see is him grunting and Helena fainting, and Koening
getting protective. SO much more could have been done with that
relationship if it were placed say at episode 20 versus episode 2.
>with Cellini and Koenig in DD (complete with flashback scenes).
I love those flashback scenes, they do a great job of setting up the
character's driven nature and the high expectations of the Ultra Probe.
For once we get a peak into what Moonbase was like before Breakaway.
>DD makes the much the same statement as >MoLaD - they
>are things we don't know about out there and we have to just trust
>someone about it sometimes. But I think it is much more effective
>because we focus as much on the characters as the profound mystery of it
>all.
Yes, there's a fabulous mystery in here, and also a great story about a
troubled man.
> Having just said that, I think one of the early episodes, Black Sun, is
> almost equally as good as DD. Because it focused on the characters, and
> it injected a little humour into it.
I agree, Black Sun has lots of little bits of Humor. Victor smoking a
cigar! I especially love that bit at the end where he smirks into the
camera and flicks the ashes onto the carpet!
Mark
From: "Mark Meskin" (plastic.gravity@new79rock.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:32:22 -0500
> I don't feel that the complacency indicates that the show is finding its
> footing and target. On the contrary, I feel that the show was developing
> from an exciting experimental format to mainstream although the Brian
> Johnson work was better than ever.
I disagree, it takes time for a show to find its voice, and learn to speak
in a way that really grabs you. Space:1999 hit a few home runs early
on(Breakaway, Black Sun). And they also lost a few(Matter of Life and
Death, Ring around the Moon). To me it take's time to do your best work
(S3 STTNG Best of Both Worlds, Dimension Jumping Ace Rimmer in Red Dwarf,
Interludes and Examinations, a late s3 episode of B5) Dragon's Domain was
the Tour de Force of Space:1999's first season, and could have been a
precurser of even better things. I think had they stayed the course during
Season 2, Space1999's legacy would be much different than it is today.
> RING AROUND THE MOON and MISSING LINK are two of the episodes that I
> cherish the most.
Peter, I know these 2 are your favorites, but to me they represent the very
worst of the series, with Rules of Luton being the absolute worst.(Ok,
Space Warp really sucks from a story standpoint, but it has some very
awesome FX in the hangar that keep it out of the cellar)
>BLACK SUN is the only episode where
> Barry Morse gives a performance as good as this.
Barry Morse is over the top in Black Sun, with a performance that would win
him an Award if it were a movie.
> What is interesting about DRAGON'S DOMAIN is the Penfold/Crichton
> collaboration, I feel, and how it feels close to the inital concept of
> the series.
Yeah...I guess, but to me its more a story about a man and a beast than it
is about a lost moon. But the lost moon is perfect backdrop for a modern
retelling of Knight slaying the evil Dragon.
> Did Barry Morse say that? In the Documentary he states something similar,
> and also says that Black Sun was his favorite ep. and I think he said Space
> Brain was the silliest. I know Gerry Anderson was happy, but I didn't
> know that he felt the series was at it best near the end of Series 1.
Hindsight is always 20/20, and if you were producing and staring in this
show, you absolute would not say at the time of Season 2, "boy, we really
cocked it up didn't we". If you listen to Landau in the Documantary he
sure sounds like he wasn't happy about the S2 changes, and especially the
loss of Barry Morse.
> I suppose, and episodes like MISSION OF THE DARIANS
While Mission of the Darians was unsettling and shocking, visually, I
thought it was a bore, and was ready to scream if someone walked through
that same damn section of corridor one more time.
> and DRAGON'S DOMAIN look perhaps more spectacular than BLACK SUN and
> MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.
From that standpoint, it would be easy to call Matter of Life and Death
spectacular, I mean how much more spectacular does it get, you blow up the
moon, the eagle, kill off all the cast, save Helena, and then press the
reset button(Star Trek Voyager wants to buy this episode's script). C'mon
Peter, its the screwed up story, and the bad dialogue that really drag this
episode down.
> I agree to this, but, nevertheless, the aggressive style of Cellini is
> quite similar to Alan during the first four episodes, I think.
Alan's aggressive and hot headed throughout BOTH seasons, I think he's the
only character that was relatively untouched by the S2 makeover.
Mark
From: "Petter Ogland" (petter.ogland@dnmi2tag.no)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:50:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
> I disagree, it takes time for a show to find its voice, and learn to speak
> in a way that really grabs you. Space:1999 hit a few home runs early
> on(Breakaway, Black Sun). And they also lost a few(Matter of Life and
> Death, Ring around the Moon). To me it take's time to do your best work
Sometimes it takes time to do ones best work, I'd agree to that. In the
case of SPACE:1999, however, although this is very much a matter of taste,
I feel the earlier experimental episodes outdo the later episodes both in
style and content.
During the first four episodes nobody seemed to understand quite what
they were doing, and this fits extremely well with the metaphysical ideas
and out-of-control situations the Alphans are hurled into.
For me all four first epidoes, BREAKAWAY, MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, BLACK
SUN and RING AROUND THE MOON are about equally grabbing. The first less
than perfect episode of the series being the fifth installment, EARTHBOUND,
with its more traditional linear narrative and personality driven plot, but
even this episode has found its place on the better half of the series
according to my taste after having watched it quite a few times.
While it sometimes takes time to do ones best, to me this peak was perhaps
reached in episode four, RING AROUND THE MOON, where the actors were
excelling to an extent I've don't think I've witnessed in any of the
other episodes, after having reached this peak the slope is usually
downwards as there is really not much more to explore.
While Landau and Bain are extremely good during the whole season, to me
it seems like some episodes are more like "a day in the life", more
routine than trying to understand and live their characters. When Koenig
is loosing his temper and abuses Kano in THE LAST SUNSET, I get this feeling.
Landau seems, at this point, so familiar with how Koenig would react that
he more or less goes into a routine it seems.
I don't think of THE LAST SUNSET is a bad episode, however, quite to the
contrary, but, as with many of the Crichton directed episodes, the
actors seldom seem motivated in the way examplified by RING AROUND THE
MOON or BLACK SUN.
> Dragon's Domain was
> the Tour de Force of Space:1999's first season, and could have been a
> precurser of even better things. I think had they stayed the course during
> Season 2, Space1999's legacy would be much different than it is today.
On acting terms, I feel the situation is even worse in DRAGON'S DOMAIN than
in THE LAST SUNSET. It's very difficult to understand why Koenig is so
aggressively upset by whether Cellini was making things up or not. Is there
some deeper motivation that is not fully explained here?
Bergman seems much more relaxed, although when meeting Dixon, both he
and Koenig are withdrawn back to Earth. Both Landau and Morse look
silly in this sequence, I feel, wearing loud jackets, foreshadowing the
Season 2 style, as if they were construction workers not scientists, and
arguing with Dixon on an emotional level rather than rational, seemingly
expressing a total lack of responsibility for the project. Dixon is the one
that is easiest to understand in this setting, I feel.
I wonder if Abe Mandell of ITC New York had visited Anderson just before
the making of DRAGON'S DOMAIN. In so many ways the style of this episode
is distorted from the original SPACE:1999 concept; the loud jackets,
the sit-com type dialogue, the "new" Helena of the past that seems
absolutely incompatible with the Helena from BREAKAWAY and BLACK SUN.
In fact she look and behaves much more similar to the Helena of Season 2.
In dramatic aspects I feel that DRAGON'S DOMAIN was a step in the wrong
direction, making the characters less understandable in the way they
talk, dress and act. On the positive side, however, the guest artists
are very good. All the sequences with Cellini and his crew are excellent,
I feel, wonderfully written, acted, at least until the attack of the
monster that is a bit jarred by Cellini's strange behaviour, like his
hesitation to close the doorway and the long time it takes before he gets
out of the cockpit. On the other hand, this may have been ment to
illustrate his psyche, indicating that he was not totally stable
even to begin with.
While the sequence in Dixon's office is rather silly, the actor portraying
Dixon is excellent.
Rather than feeling that if they had kept closer to the DRAGON'S DOMAIN
style in Season 2 they would have made it a better series, I feel this
was excactly what they were doing. DRAGON'S DOMAIN seems like a hybrid
of Season 1 and 2, I feel, showing that it would be unfair to blame
Freiberger too much for the course the series was taking. At the time of
DRAGON'S DOMAIN, the season 1 approach to SPACE:1999 was already close to
being a thing of the past.
Petter
From: David Acheson (dkach@hot10mail.com)
Subject: Space1999: The show's progression
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 06:44:34 EDT
Its interesting seeing the arguments going back and forth over how
season one progressed. Standing by the sidelines I must admit I see a
bit of truth in everyone's arguments BUT the thing I see most is that
how the show progressed is a product of each listmember's tastes. Thus
who is really right?
For me personally, 1999 did become more conventional as year one
progressed but I have no problems with that. I mentioned, at least a
million times earlier, that the early episodes seemed experimental in
nature and that the production seemed liked it didn't have a direction
in which to go to. This itself was not a totally bad thing. Some
exceptional work was done in the beginning but so did some appear
throughout the run of the first year. And yes, season two haters, even
some exceptional stuff was done in the second year despite Mr.
Freiberger. As I said at the beginning, its a matter of tastes and one
should not condemn others for liking something one may not like.
I admit to disagree with Petter's earlier comments about DRAGON'S
DOMAIN. But I also disagree with whoever said it was the penultimate
episode of the series. For me that would have been WAR GAMES. I think
the DRAGON'S DOMAIN casual approach the characters took towards each
other reflected the growth of a community over time. Especially the
relationship between Helena and John. The toothbrush joke wasn't comical
at all, in my opinion, but was rather general bitchiness during a
lover's quarrel. I find it rather realistic the two would fight
eventually. The flower scene was John's awkward way of making up -men
generally are bad at such things. If this is character driven then so be
it. Over time, the lost sheep of Alpha would put down their guards and
start relating to the others around them. I don't believe any of these
sequences took away from the feel of the story.
I believe 1999 itself was an experiment for television thus the general
feeling of "what do we do next" that we see from the production and even
its viewers. Its not like the show had others on which it could safely
follow behind. The biggest problem with STAR TREK: VOYAGER is that it
has all been done before. So can we blame any one person for 1999
disappearing after 48 episodes. TWIN PEAKS lasted even less. The point
being that it was indeed convoluted all the way but I feel its better to
have what did come out of it rather than not have it at all.
Unfortunately, I believe these discussions over which season is better
or even which episode is better will never be solved. Its all a matter
of personal and eccentric tastes.
David Acheson
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi7fhb.no)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:33:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Space1999: The show's progression
> I admit to disagree with Petter's earlier comments about DRAGON'S
> DOMAIN. But I also disagree with whoever said it was the penultimate
> episode of the series. For me that would have been WAR GAMES.
So I've noticed. Personally I'd think I'd go for RING AROUND THE MOON.
> I think
> the DRAGON'S DOMAIN casual approach the characters took towards each
> other reflected the growth of a community over time. Especially the
> relationship between Helena and John. The toothbrush joke wasn't comical
> at all, in my opinion, but was rather general bitchiness during a
> lover's quarrel. I find it rather realistic the two would fight
> eventually. The flower scene was John's awkward way of making up -men
> generally are bad at such things.
Reading the toothbrush scene in this manner seems rather curious from
my point of view, but nevertheless interesting. You may have a point
there.
> Over time, the lost sheep of Alpha would put down their guards and
> start relating to the others around them. I don't believe any of these
> sequences took away from the feel of the story.
I do respect the point that both you and Martin are making about growth of
the community over time. I can appreciate this, and in regard to your analogy
concerning TWIN PEAKS, perhaps it was better for the series that it evolved
in the direction of "STAR TREK cowboys" as Mark calls it, than living on status
quo and perhaps consequently dying out before there was any talk of a season 2
at all.
> Unfortunately, I believe these discussions over which season is better
> or even which episode is better will never be solved. Its all a matter
> of personal [...] tastes.
Although I have favourites and not-so-favourites, I would agree to the
impossibility of giving a general ranking of episodes on general terms.
The classifications I make concern aspects that I find interesting. Often
this has more to do with how envolved I get in the episodes, but some
episodes show fine acting, others have interesting writing or stylish
direction. Special effects and music does also come into consideration,
but, from my point of view, however, each posting to this group is more
a reflection on how each list member values the episodes than a brick in
the cathedral of the scientifically objective evaluation of SPACE:1999.
For me an episode like RING AROUND THE MOON is enormously rich in style
and content and would fit into the category of episodes that I consider
excellent. An episode like THE ENTERNAL MACHINE, I would probably fit
among what I personally find less entertaining. DRAGON'S DOMAIN is
about average according to my taste.
I assume, however, if we were to make a statistical classification of
episodes from POOR to EXCELLENT based on the views of the approx. 200
people who are assigned to this list, the order would relect an order
significantly different from how each and one of us does perceive it,
but then again, standard deviations could meassure how unified we are
as a group, although I don't know if this would be very interesting
information unless somebody are trying to sell something.
However small the standard deviation may be, even though I suspect that
most of us would range less controversial episodes like BLACK SUN and WAR
GAMES very highly, there are, of course, those who think that BLACK SUN is
too slow and feeling that WAR GAMES was corrupted by a "fake" ending. This
is at least how John Kenneth Muir values these two in his "Exploring
SPACE:1999", quite surprisingly, I would say, but nevertheless...
Personally I find it quite interesting that we all view the series from
different perspectives, and value episodes differently. I find
it especially interesting when someone is pointing out interesting aspects
of episodes I have cared less about previously. The discussion on
Bob Kellett's THE LAST ENEMY was one such discussion that broadend my
mind considerably.
I look forward to discussing Season 2 or novels and round-up of
Season 1, whatever we decide to do. There should still be plenty to
be said about DRAGON'S DOMAIN, however, and then we have THE TESTAMENT
OF ARKADIA, of course.
Petter
From: "Mark Meskin" (plastic.gravity@new121rock.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Dragon's Domain
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:15:51 -0500
> While it sometimes takes time to do ones best, to me this peak was perhaps
> reached in episode four, RING AROUND THE MOON, where the actors were
> excelling to an extent I've don't think I've witnessed in any of the
> other episodes, after having reached this peak the slope is usually
> downwards as there is really not much more to explore.
Peter, this "experimental" episode as you call it, seems to fit more into a
generic sci-fi mold than it does Space:1999. A few points to consider:
Its only a 3 episodes from the time of Breakaway, yet they've already
evolved into something of space-cowboys already. In Breakaway, its obvious
that humanity knows little beyond its own solar system, and is earnestly
exploring it. Yet 3 episodes later, Victor has a Rand-Mcnally atlas of the
Universe. He also seems to have picked up a copy of the Encyclopedia
Galactica, as "Triton has not been heard from in a thousand years" Curious,
that. Where is he getting all this dribble from. In Breakaway, the
equipment and technology are extensions of our modern(circa1975)
technology. When the nuclear waste dumps blow up, the eagles are
defensless. Yet by the time of Ring around the Moon, the eagles have
anti-gravity shielding, and suddenly much more engine power. I'd have
thought that if this equipment is aboard, once the nukes started to go up,
they could've just flicked on the shields and zipped away. I could go on
with the inconsistencies a lot more, but I trust my point is made.
Peter, in Ring around the Moon, the alphans are NO different from Kirk et
al in Star Trek, or perhaps the Season 2 Alphans, who can handle anything.
Hardly experimental I'd say.
> While Landau and Bain are extremely good during the whole season, to me
> it seems like some episodes are more like "a day in the life", more
> routine than trying to understand and live their characters. When Koenig
> is loosing his temper and abuses Kano in THE LAST SUNSET, I get this feeling.
> Landau seems, at this point, so familiar with how Koenig would react that
> he more or less goes into a routine it seems.
This is his character, he's high strung, demanding, and just plain likes to
shout a lot. That's Koenig all right.
From: Mark Meskin (plastic.gravity@new11rock.com)
Subject: Re: Space1999: The show's progression
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:47:16 -0500
> I admit to disagree with Petter's earlier comments about DRAGON'S
> DOMAIN. But I also disagree with whoever said it was the penultimate
> episode of the series.
That would be me, and feel free to disagree, I don't take it personally.
>For me that would have been WAR GAMES.
War Games was a great epsiode, but the sheer terror of DD, along with its
great characterizations put it on top for me.
> I believe 1999 itself was an experiment for television thus the general
> feeling of "what do we do next"
A lot of pressure was on them to be the next Star Trek, and the great
variation in the style of the ealy episodes show they are not sure where to
go with the show.
> The biggest problem with STAR TREK: VOYAGER is that it
> has all been done before.
Everything sure hasn't been done before, but Voyagers writters syre don't
know that, they don't have an ounce of backbone. The local affiliate here
has dumped UPN, so I am no longer lured into an hour of techodribble that
made me wish I had just stayed in the other room reading a book.
> So can we blame any one person for 1999
> disappearing after 48 episodes.
Martin Landau states that had Lew Grade not wanted to go into movies so
bad, 1999 would have continued on.
> Unfortunately, I believe these discussions over which season is better
> or even which episode is better will never be solved. Its all a matter
> of personal and eccentric tastes.
David, its OK to disagree. Its OK to debate something. I have to admit, I
think the list has become a little overly PC lately, and virtually no one
wants to stand their ground. Peter is not afraid to defend his point of
view, I admire that, even if I think what he's saying is bunk. Keep 'em
comin folks, its been a great discussion.
Mark
From: "Robert Ashley Ruiz" (cybrarian@cybrary1999b.com)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:09:47 +0000
Subject: Space1999: Overly PC
Amen. Thank you, Mark. This list is A LOT more interesting when
people say what they believe and defend their opinions, telling WHY
they feel as they do. The issue has always been HOW one relays
his/her differing opinion, not that he/she disagrees. Reading
differing opinions and why people feel as they do is what makes it
interesting and adds vitality to the discussion.
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lionel Armstrong (notpc@vcn-bc-ca)
Subject: Re: Space1999: Overly PC
I also agree fully. Political Correctness just prevents people from
expressing their true feelings by showing a false front to everyone
in fear of offending anyone in the slightest.
That's my $0.02
This coming from the Base Polititian ( But I am not like Simmonds! ) :)
Lionel Armstrong
President
Reform Party of Canada
Vancouver Kingsway Constituency Association
PO Box 27118,
RPO Collingwood,
Vancouver, B.C. V5R 6A8
Communications Director & Media Liason Officer
The British Columbia Party
Suite 119 - 255 W. 1st Street,
North Vancouver, B.C. V7M 3G8
(604) 980-6622
E-mail:
-----> NFA Member as well.
From: South Central (Tamazunchale@web94tv.net)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:49:35 -0700
Subject: Space1999: Lasting power
I love the fact the Mark and Petter are in a heated debate over Dragon's
Domain. If we can still get excited about a show over 20 years old,
then truly it has withstood the test of time. A friendly heated debate
never hurt anyone! This is list on the move!!
Mateo
From: David Acheson (dkach@hot04mail.com)
Subject: Space1999: The show's progression
Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 06:23:29 EDT
>Martin Landau states that had Lew Grade not wanted to go into movies so
>bad, 1999 would have continued on.
I guess the movies they ended up making made Lord Grade wish he stayed
with television and 1999. I seem to remember, with a few exceptions,
that most of the movies made by ITC were not all that good.
>David, its OK to disagree. Its OK to debate something. I have to admit, I
>think the list has become a little overly PC lately, and virtually no one
>wants to stand their ground. Peter is not afraid to defend his point of
>view, I admire that, even if I think what he's saying is bunk. Keep 'em
>comin folks, its been a great discussion.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and have no problems with disagreements
on the list. I certainly have my own views too and don't expect everyone
to like what I like. I enjoy discussing with Petter our views on the
episodes - sometimes we think alike, sometimes we are on different
worlds. There has only been a few flamers over the past year since I
joined so I know most people disagree but still respect the others. I
guess all I really was saying is disagree but not kill the other.
And yes, the episode by episode discussions have been the best thing to
happen on this list. I've been enjoying this very much.
From: Petter Ogland (petter.ogland@dnmi90t.no)
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 15:54:31 +0000
Subject: Re: Space1999: The show's progression
> David, its OK to disagree. Its OK to debate something. I have to admit, I
> think the list has become a little overly PC lately, and virtually no one
> wants to stand their ground.
It's nice of you to state this, Mark. I see that Mateo, Robert, David, Ellen
and others agree to this. I'm certainly in favour of debate, although no-one
should feel bad about having personal opinions, I think. As I see it, we are
more or less family. Which episodes are the best is a matter of personal
taste anyway.
> Petter is not afraid to defend his point of
> view, I admire that, even if I think what he's saying is bunk.
Thanks for the confidence, Mark. Concerning our discussion on DRAGON'S
DOMAIN, I don't find what you are saying bunk, actually, but I get the
impression that we view certain things differently. I can't remember
having had such an interesting exchange of highly different opinions since
discussing RING AROUND THE MOON with Tony or BLACK SUN and MATTER OF LIFE AND
DEATH with Ggreg Perry half a year ago.
On the regular debates with David A., David W., Janet, Pat, Brian etc.
I feel there is often more a display of how we feel concerning a
particular episode rather than a debate about whether something is
good or bad. I remember though, when we realised how the chauvinistic
and otherwise unorthodox opinions of Bob Kellett had been cut from the
final draft of THE LAST ENEMY there was a small heating on the list. I
remember enjoying understanding Kellett to a wider extent then. Suddenly
I was seeing at least FULL CIRCLE and THE LAST ENEMY in a new context.
In the case of VOYAGER'S RETURN I'm still under the impression that he
was not trying to make a statement, but rather just trying to finish up
the episode within the timelimits that were given.
I enjoy both the individual comment and analysis of episodes where we
try to share what we find enjoyable in a particular episode and an
emotional exchange of opinions, which I often find as an interesting way of
asking why some people tend to like or dislike certain features about the
series.
During my discussion with Mark, I feel that we are to a certain extent
investigating if and to what degree the series changed during its course
of season 1. I'm under the impression that most who have spoken to the
list about this agree that the series has changes from an "experimental"
style to a "conventional" style, the words Martin used, although we
don't all agree to how to value this. Some prefer the conventional style,
some, like me, prefer the experimental style.
> Keep 'em comin folks, its been a great discussion.
I enjoy the discussion too, and agree with David A. who says that Mateo's
idea of a week by week discussion is the best thing that has happened on
this list.
> Petter, this "experimental" episode as you call it, seems to fit more into a
> generic sci-fi mold than it does Space:1999. A few points to consider:
> Its only a 3 episodes from the time of Breakaway, yet they've already
> evolved into something of space-cowboys already.
Space-cowboys? I think that term fits with the Season 2 approach, and
perhaps an season 1 episode like WAR GAMES, where Koenig shouts excitedly:
"We're at war!" Well, this is fine with an episode like WAR GAMES which
Penfold had written as an anti-war document, this is what he says in the
Documentary, and illustrates nicely how the cowboy approach is not always
the best. WAR GAMES is almost a DR. STRANGLOVE commentary in regard of this,
I feel.
From my point of view RING AROUND THE MOON is almost complementary to the
cowboy- or action-based approach that we find for instance in very much of
season 2. Quite to the contrary, my impression is that people who don't
appreciate RING AROUND THE MOON often find it too slow, too much talking,
perhaps too much philosophy. Watching this from a space cowboy approach is
totally new to me, but, nevertheless, perhaps an interesting way to
approach it. At least Alan Carter has a certain rodeo cowboy attitude to
things that prevails nicely in this episode. His flight towards the
Triton probe could perhaps be viewed as a parallell to the final
sequences in DR. STRANGELOVE when they are dropping the bombs.
> In Breakaway, its obvious
> that humanity knows little beyond its own solar system, and is earnestly
> exploring it. Yet 3 episodes later, Victor has a Rand-Mcnally atlas of the
> Universe. He also seems to have picked up a copy of the Encyclopedia
> Galactica, as "Triton has not been heard from in a thousand years" Curious,
> that. Where is he getting all this dribble from.
Personally I've always enjoyed the sequence with Victor where he talks
about ancient Egypt and "eyes in the sky". Some have pointed out that
he is at one moment contradicing himself since he has earlier said that
we know nothing of Triton. As I see it, this is one of the wonderful
things about the episode. It's similar to when Helena is having her
eye test. At the beginning of this sequence Dr. Mathias seems perfectly
content, saying there is nothing wrong. The she has a look at three
pencils, saying that she sees only two, but should see four, where upon
Dr. Mathias says that his investigations indicates that she is blind(!).
"Obviously this is wrong", Koenig says, and Dr. Mathias adds, sarcastically;
"Obviously!"
To me with RING AROUND THE MOON Anderson et al. were coming much closer
to real life than in any other episode, exploring the fact that life does
not follow a linear narrative, that people often tend to contradict themselves
and often people say odd things.
But rather being odd just for the sake of being odd, like in TWIN PEAKS, I
feel that we are always under the impression that there is a deeper meaning
to the words and actions in RING AROUND THE MOON. For instance, there is
talk about Helena experiencing the world like a computer, and there is
the focal point of the episode, the meaning of knowledge. Why do we
aquire knowledge?
In the world of Season 2 this questiong does not seem very relevant, the
knowledge in question there is the practical knowledge of the space cowboy.
In season 1, however, the meaning of knowledge, or pure knowledge as Victor
sometimes puts it, is a theme that occurs again and again for instance in
episodes like BLACK SUN, VOYAGER'S RETURN and WAR GAMES. The quest for
knowledge and its implications are often presented in connotation with
Victor when he talks about things that bring meaning to life.
> This is his character, he's high strung, demanding, and just plain likes to
> shout a lot. That's Koenig all right.
Likes to shout a lot, he-he, I like that way of putting it. He's quite like
that from the very beginning of BREAKAWAY, isn't he? I like the sequence
when he talks with Victor about Dr. Russell and says he knows all about
her before even having met her. Very interesting character, John Koenig.
What I felt with that particular scene from THE LAST SUNSET, and very many
of the scenes in DRAGON'S DOMAIN, is, however, that Martin Landau is
aware of the emotional patterns of Koenig to such an extent that he
could almost do Koenig in his sleep, and, in fact, to me he seems to lesser
extent to be "living" John Koening in these instances, but rather putting
on an "John Koenig act". Having said this, I must admid that there are
few actors I admire more than Landau. In other episodes, and other series,
like MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, he seems incredibly capable of "living" his
characters no matter what kind of lines and actions are demanded of him.
Quite outstanding, actually.