From: "SCOOBY DOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?"
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:57:08 EST
Subj: Nuclear Waste Domes / OT: First Contact
:: sound of commlock beeping, door opens ::
A few people have mentioned the nuclear waste storage facilities seen in Year
Two. In "Seance Spectre", the Alphans give the name of the waste facility where
Koenig goes to trigger a nuclear explosion as "Area Three". I believe that this
is where the nuclear waste which WAS successfully dispersed during "Breakaway"
ended up. Since new nuclear waste from Earth was still being stored in Area Two
during "Breakaway", Area Three must have been built after the Moon blasted out
of Earth orbit.
I don't know about the ones seen in "Bringers of Wonder", it's been a while,
and I don't have this episode on tape yet.
[ST part split into separate thread]
I just heard on my TV in the background that Russia's Mars Probe has crashed in
the Pacific after it appeared to be heading off-course towards Australia. Geez.
That was close. Are the Russians not aware that Mars is a whole different
planet? :) But I kid the Russians...
:: entering travel tube, pressing button for Launch Pad Four ::
From: Charles McEvoy (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:13:44 -0400
Subj: nuclear waste
In reading some of the recent messages regarding the amount of nuclear
waste on the moon, I am dumbstrcuk by the fact the no one questions the need
for there to be waste on the moon! after all, the building of a manned base
who's sole purpose is to monitor nuclear waste on the far side is, well,
farfetched. Now I know that that is the basic premise of the show, but
think of the logistics required to ship all that crap to the moon and then
to build all those nifty storage sites (at last count, no less than four?).
This is a world that has just gone through a terrible global war in 1987 and
the survivors did not question why obvious billions were being spent of such
flagrant waste? Surely it would be wiser--and more economical--to simply
send the waste on a slow trajectory to the sun--problem solved, forever!!!!!
However, on the moon, there will be the need to continual monitor the waste.
What a waste!
Perhaps the dumpos were built as a remainder of human folly? Let's spend
billions creating an eternal reminder of how close we came to destroying
ourselves? Points to ponder?
Yet there is one puzzling problem with dumps sites. Why do they require a
laser barrier? They are on the moon, what are they trying to protect them
from? Perhaps the world of s1999 is still not as stable as we would
hope--maybe there are still renegade nations bent on accquiring a cheap
source of plutonium? The laser barriers bothered me, by why only areas one
and two? Koenig did not encounter such a device in BOW or in SS.
Why is the waste on the moon? Probably because Alpha uses breeder
reactors< i.e. uses spent nuclear fuel as a source of energy-this would
explain why Alpha had been built. It would be a symbol for all the world to
see that all horrible weapons and waste products of a consumer society were
actually being used for good. But why so many different waste sites?
Probably due to the nature of the waste. They would probably pool all the
waste with a similar life in the same location. Nuclear weapons here, spent
fuel rods there, smoke detectors over there.....
The initial explosion? Bergman said that the nuclear waste was behaving
like a huge rocket motor---if it had stopped 'fissioning' then the moon
would not accelerate anymore. Since the waste had to reach a critical mass
to ignite, would it not have been possbile for a fusion reaction to occur.
This would explain why the explosion was powerful enough to dislodge the
moon from its orbit. Not only would a fusion reaction utilize the nuclear
waste, it would use the very material of which the moon is made as an energy
source---if such were to happen then the moon would shine like the sun, but
for only a brief time. Remember the extremely bright light seen in both
Breakaway and Seance Spectre?
Such lunar destruction would help to explain the comment made by Rowland in
'Death's Other Dominion" that the moon appeared a bit 'eaten'.
What stopped the fusion process from engulfing the entire moon? I do not
know. Perhaps the mysterious unknown force?
From: email@example.com (Jeanette Quimby)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:32:14 -0600
Charles pondered "why not send the waste on a course to the sun?"
I would have to think that the risk of malfunction on the way to the sun
would lay us open for "accidents falling from the sky" (Such as happened to
our fellow alphans in Australia, who were lucky enough that the plutonium
from the russian satellite fell into the ocean - a "much safer spot").
Mistakes happen, and I would hate to have just one of those things
accidentally not make it out of orbit on an unmanned rocket. At least a
manned transport, even to the moon, has a better chance to "avert" a
disaster. Not only would there be an increased risk for an accident
concerning the Earth with an unmanned transport, but who is responsible for
accidents between here and the sun? Vengeful aliens are not a force I would
like to deal with, especially on something that could have been avoided.
If the moon had not left orbit and their earlier deep space missions had
been successful, maybe the waste could have been carried by a manned Eagle
and then jettisoned a lot closer to the sun. Until then, I would assume the
waste to be carried by unmanned vehicles to the sun.
Also, as an explanation as to why some sites were "laser protected" and
others were not. No matter how horrible the war may have been, there would
also be some group who was not happy with the outcome. I would say there
would still have been someone waiting for an opportunity to remove anything
that might have been useful. Looking back on the world's history can you
name one armed conflict that was resolved with all parties happy with the
results? I know with the armed conflicts that the United States has been
involved with, there is always one group/political party/etc. who thinks
there should have been a different outcome.
Just more philosphical thoughts.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Marshall Poindexter)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:36:05 -0600
These are great questions to ponder, Charles. Unfortunately, I think there
was only one reason why they included things like a laser barrier in the
show: IT LOOKED COOL! Seriously, I know that some people may disagree, but
I think many times (BUT NOT ALWAYS!) certain plot elements in the show were
subordinated to the hardware and special effects. After all, spending
hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode of a TV series was pretty
unusual at that time in the 1970s and they probably wanted to get their
money's worth in special effects.
I would bet money that Gerry Anderson and the rest of the creative team
simply sat around and said, "What neat-looking things can we create that
will wow the viewers?!" but they never really thought through reasons why
those things should or shouldn't be there at all.
Of course, this means we can spend hours online discussing the possible
explanations for S1999 creations that seem to have no purpose! I love this
list! And, in a way, we can thank the poor scriptwriting and continuity
folks on S1999. If it wasn't for their *lack* of effort, we wouldn't have
much to discuss, ponder, debate, etc.! (This comment is meant in NO WAY to
disparage the fine efforts of great writers like Johnny Byrne, who may not
have had final say or control in how his scripts were presented.)
From: Orbiter (email@example.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:32:34 -0800
Subj: re: Lunar nuke waste
Now there's a THIRD site?! Is there no end?
there is no other... /
(Richard Cox) /
Vancouver, B.C. /
Canada :) /
From: Zoltan Motyan (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:19:47 +0100
Subj: Nuclear Waste
Thanks all for the info and opinions.
Well, the domes in BoW seem to be built
after Breakaway. New structures with much more
safety. They don't produce magnetic storms
and don't explode accidentally.
But still, still, still... Alphans create and
store a special device, a fuse that can be used
to "fire" the waste and explode it! Strange.
I can figure out only one purpose of it:
to be usable by any aliens who want to destroy
Alpha for some reason. :)
The laser barriers: I think the most habits of man
can't change in a few years. After a decade of world
peace he still feel the constraint to make special
safety arrangements in certain cases. On Alpha there
are several safety rules and devices: the laser barriers
are one of them.
And sending the waste into the Sun on a low speed
trajectory also can't be realized because of safety
reasons unless each package has its own automatic
From: Orbiter (email@example.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:31:42 -0800
Another thing to think about when sending nuclear waste to the sun, is
Murphy's Law. If you send nukes to the sun on a slow trip/trajectory, what
would happen if the sun was missed, and you met up with (and hit by) that
same waste as the Earth travelled it's regular orbital path?
Murphy's Law: everything that can possibly go wrong will; anything that has
gone wrong will go wrong again.
From: Patrick.Alan.Mcdonald@Microserve44.com (Patrick Alan Mcdonald)
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:18:31 EST
Subj: Waste Sites 3+
Though I'm a big fan of the show, I've always felt it took a nosedive with
Season Two. I don't much care for Miya at all, and Tony Vederschi is no
replacement for either Paul Morrow OR Victor Bergman. I also didn't much care
for those jackets they started wearing in Season Two. Yuck. :)
It also seemed Season Two took a decent departure from the First Season.
Can we really trust the stuff from Season Two to NOT be contradictory to Season
The way they discussed the Waste Sites in Breakaway, they gave a STRONG
impression that their were only TWO Waste Sites, #1 and #2. And Bergan pretty
much discussed that Site #1 was abandoned in favor of Site #2 when Site #1 was
filled. Site #2 was much newer, had more room, and a whole range of sensor
arrays not present at Site #1, also showing it's age over #2.
The way they were worried about Waste Sites, I SERIOUSLY doubt there was ANY
such Site #3 or #4 (hinted at in Bringers Of Wonder and that other episode, SS)
at the time of the Moon's Breakaway.
Of course, they could have built a THIRD Site AFTER the Breakaway, but what
would they store there? All the Waste in Site #2 was destroyed in the
explosion in Breakaway (there's NO way it could have survived, and even if it
had, the Radiation would have prevented it from being gathered), and one would
assume that the fire that burned itself out in Site #1 consumed the waste there
So, essentially, I dare say Site #3, as it's being called by the List, is
simply a new set by the Second Season's new producer or whatever that
represents the same old Site #1. I can't believe it'd be Site #2...
Lieutenant Mac, Director, Moonbase PDOC
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:10:59 -0500
Subj: Re: Nuclear Waste Domes / OT: First Contact
Bringers of Wonder happened before Seance Specter chronologically(as per the
date given in Helena's log) as well as filming order. Yet no mention is
given of the Area involved. It certainly doesn't look anything like the Area
in Seance Spectre or Areas one and two from Breakaway. I did get the
impression in BOW that the Area(?) monitoring facility was quite large. Also
it looks vast in terms of lunar real estate as well. I'm amazed this episode
actually got filmed at all, given its CEREBRAL theme. Then again, it did
have rubber monsters, so I guess that appealed to Freddy. Despite the rubber
monsters, poor guest acting, and silly dialogue(Anyone remember the
conversations of the three musketteers while they are in the pilot ship?) Its
still an enjoyable romp. Koenig has the best line of several episode's when
he proudly declares "I haven't had this much fun since I burned Grandma's
wig!" while barnstorming(nuclearwastedomestorming???) in an Eagle. One of
the flight models I designed for Eagle One actually allows you to fly the
Eagle like that. It is quite fun, especially if you try it using the
external views where you see the Eagle skimming just over the tops of
The monitoring station set is HUGE, given such a large building, why
weren't more people on duty there? Given how much nuclear waste and
associated byproducts are on the moon I'm surprised Moonbase Alpha doesn't
look more like the Deimos Base from Doom. Think about it, Nuclear waste
from earth, Nuclear weapons, Nuclear powered Eagles, Nuclear Moonbuggies,
Nuclear powered moonbase...........no wonder nobody has any children, they
don't need birth control, they're all sterile!
From: WHEN I DANCE THEY CALL ME MACARENA
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:23:51 EST
Subj: Area Three and Congrats: Ellen
First things first: CONGRATULATIONS, ELLEN!! That's great news!! I hope it's
everything you hope it will be! :)
Now then. I re-screened "Seance Spectre" again tonight. Yes, the name of the
nuclear waste dump featured in the show IS named "Area Three", according to
"Eagle 3 to Eagle 6... Alan, is there any sign of movement in Area Three?"
But I may be wrong about the Alphans having built Area Three since the events
of "Breakaway". Koenig's commentary on the "old" waste dumps at the site, in
shafts 10,000 feet deep (!) capped with concrete... I think that's a little too
much work for the Alphans to accomplish by themselves (unless Sanderson's
surface exploration teams had to do the work... in that case, no wonder he got
so P.O.'ed...). Therefore, Area Three must have been built prior to
"Breakaway", but this would seem to add yet another inconsistency to the show.
If Area Three WAS around, why wasn't it mentioned? And why didn't ITS waste
blow up (by itself, I mean) or present weird magnetic radiation hazards to
humans? Why was Area Two still open and receiving waste (Koenig even has to
twist Simmonds' arm to get new waste deliveries to stop coming to Area Two in
"Breakaway"...) if Area Three was open for business... aaarrrghh!!!
I had other problems with "Seance Spectre" as well:
1) How Sanderson could remain invisible on the surface of the Moon with twenty
or so Eagles parked in orbit, watching for him, is beyond me.
2) How Sanderson could beat Koenig and Maya's Eagle to Area Three in a
moon-buggy, with only a five minute headstart, is also beyond my power to
3) I know that nuclear waste is dangerous stuff, but really, why does it have
to be buried 10,000 feet deep on the far side of the Moon? What kind of really
high-powered nuclear waste is this??
4) There's a continuity error during the scene when the Eagle which crashed on
Tora is brought back by remote control. While Koenig and Maya are falling from
side to side in the passenger section, the camera tilts but the damaged helmet
on the floor stays put; doesn't roll or nuthin'... yes, I know that recording
continuity errors in Season Two episodes is like shooting fish in a barrel, but
in case you're keeping track...
See ya later!
Oh, and Mark, good luck with the 3-D renderings. I was hoping that upgrading to
a 686 system would end my problems with the 3-D Studio software, but apparently
not. Can't wait to see what you've done with the Space Station. :)