From:  Zoltan Motyan (
Date:  Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:32:56 +0100
Subj:  Nuclear Waste Areas: Questions

During the explosion of Area Two an enermuous amount of energy
had to be emitted, enough to push out Moon from its orbit.
It would have had to left a vast, well-visible crater on the
face of Moon.
In some episodes we can see totals of Moon several times,
even from the angle of its "back" (relative to its moving direction). 
But I've never seen the crater in that pictures.
Is there any episode in which the destructed area plays any role?

Is there any connection between the original Disposal Areas and 
the nuclear waste domes in "Bringers Of Wonder"?
Or the domes were used to store only the nuclear waste of the
Moonbase itself?

From: Ian Wheeler ( Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:29:44 +0000 This raises an interesting question: Why has Alpha got so many different tpyes ofNuclear Waste diposal facility? During the 2 years we see: Areas 1 and 2 in "Breakaway", Which are like small cones covering the landscape, The Nuclear Waste domes in "Bringers of Wonder", which look like large half-spheres in the ground, all connected by an intricate (and very large) set of walkways, And the Waste shafts of "The Seance Spectre", which were essentially pipes reaching deep into the lunar surface (persumably filled with Nuclear Waste), and capped with weird looking concrete caps. (Have I missed out any?) Which of these are the DEFINITIVE disposal area for the NCW (NuClear Waste)? Or are they all waste areas produced with the experimentation of different types of waste containment, (presumably eventually settling on the method seen in Area 2)? As far as the position of the nuclear blast point, over the years, we saw the Moon change course, and perhaps it has changed orientation also, which may be why we never saw it any "Exterior aft" visuals. We probably never saw the Alphans go near the blast area (At least, that's what it looks like,) because the Radiation levels would be so intense that any person going there would be infected with Radiation sickness so quickly that they would die before Dr. Russell could offer any futuristic treatment. That's my 0.02 sieverts (look it up!)
From: Orbiter ( Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:33:24 -0800 My turn! Two types of storage. Storage 1: spent nuclear rods, medical waste, contaminated equipment and weapons (<-?). Type 2: unused nuclear fuel rod storage. Since Alpha received power from a nuclear generator, it would require additional rods. Rods do not have an infinite supply of energy, so they would require replacement after a while. So, basically pre-use storage, and post-use storage. How's that for a hypothesis?
From: "Robert Ashley Ruiz" ( Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 11:47:15 -0700 Subj: Nuclear Waste Domes It's been widely reported that the moon would have disintegrated altogether with a blast strong enough to push it out of orbit, but even so, in the show I have never noticed a "Breakaway Crater." In The Space: 1999 Documentary, however, they did add a nice effect (not seen in the series). When the moon is being blasted out of orbit, it glows red on the dark side, like a giant rocket. They also added lens flares in a couple places that looked great, but weren't strictly 1999. > Is there any connection between the original Disposal Areas and the > nuclear waste domes in "Bringers Of Wonder"? Or the domes were used > to store only the nuclear waste of the Moonbase itself? This point's never made clear. I remember watching Bringers the first time and being jarred all over again just like in The Metamorph at seeing the show break with what had already been established. It could be argued that the domes were just a different type of disposal area, or were a part of area two we never saw, but actually, since Area 1 and Area 2 both blew up, it makes perfect sense that the domes might be replacement domes for Alpha's use; though why they would expend the energy to build this type of complex as opposed to just dumping them in the ground as in the past raises another question. Fan Justification 1999D: They learned from their mistakes with the Area 2 explosion and built this new type of complex to contain not only the nuclear waste but also the magnetic radiation that they discovered in Area 2.
Date:  Mon, 18 Nov 1996 01:57:08 EST
Subj:  Nuclear Waste Domes / OT: First Contact

:: sound of commlock beeping, door opens ::

Boomer here.

A few people have mentioned the nuclear waste storage facilities seen in Year
Two. In "Seance Spectre", the Alphans give the name of the waste facility where
Koenig goes to trigger a nuclear explosion as "Area Three". I believe that this
is where the nuclear waste which WAS successfully dispersed during "Breakaway"
ended up. Since new nuclear waste from Earth was still being stored in Area Two
during "Breakaway", Area Three must have been built after the Moon blasted out
of Earth orbit. 

I don't know about the ones seen in "Bringers of Wonder", it's been a while,
and I don't have this episode on tape yet. 

[ST part split into separate thread]

I just heard on my TV in the background that Russia's Mars Probe has crashed in
the Pacific after it appeared to be heading off-course towards Australia. Geez.
That was close. Are the Russians not aware that Mars is a whole different 
planet? :) But I kid the Russians... 

:: entering travel tube, pressing button for Launch Pad Four :: 

See ya, 


From: Charles McEvoy ( Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:13:44 -0400 Subj: nuclear waste In reading some of the recent messages regarding the amount of nuclear waste on the moon, I am dumbstrcuk by the fact the no one questions the need for there to be waste on the moon! after all, the building of a manned base who's sole purpose is to monitor nuclear waste on the far side is, well, farfetched. Now I know that that is the basic premise of the show, but think of the logistics required to ship all that crap to the moon and then to build all those nifty storage sites (at last count, no less than four?). This is a world that has just gone through a terrible global war in 1987 and the survivors did not question why obvious billions were being spent of such flagrant waste? Surely it would be wiser--and more economical--to simply send the waste on a slow trajectory to the sun--problem solved, forever!!!!! However, on the moon, there will be the need to continual monitor the waste. What a waste! Perhaps the dumpos were built as a remainder of human folly? Let's spend billions creating an eternal reminder of how close we came to destroying ourselves? Points to ponder? Yet there is one puzzling problem with dumps sites. Why do they require a laser barrier? They are on the moon, what are they trying to protect them from? Perhaps the world of s1999 is still not as stable as we would hope--maybe there are still renegade nations bent on accquiring a cheap source of plutonium? The laser barriers bothered me, by why only areas one and two? Koenig did not encounter such a device in BOW or in SS. Why is the waste on the moon? Probably because Alpha uses breeder reactors< i.e. uses spent nuclear fuel as a source of energy-this would explain why Alpha had been built. It would be a symbol for all the world to see that all horrible weapons and waste products of a consumer society were actually being used for good. But why so many different waste sites? Probably due to the nature of the waste. They would probably pool all the waste with a similar life in the same location. Nuclear weapons here, spent fuel rods there, smoke detectors over there..... The initial explosion? Bergman said that the nuclear waste was behaving like a huge rocket motor---if it had stopped 'fissioning' then the moon would not accelerate anymore. Since the waste had to reach a critical mass to ignite, would it not have been possbile for a fusion reaction to occur. This would explain why the explosion was powerful enough to dislodge the moon from its orbit. Not only would a fusion reaction utilize the nuclear waste, it would use the very material of which the moon is made as an energy source---if such were to happen then the moon would shine like the sun, but for only a brief time. Remember the extremely bright light seen in both Breakaway and Seance Spectre? Such lunar destruction would help to explain the comment made by Rowland in 'Death's Other Dominion" that the moon appeared a bit 'eaten'. What stopped the fusion process from engulfing the entire moon? I do not know. Perhaps the mysterious unknown force?
From: (Jeanette Quimby) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:32:14 -0600 Charles pondered "why not send the waste on a course to the sun?" I would have to think that the risk of malfunction on the way to the sun would lay us open for "accidents falling from the sky" (Such as happened to our fellow alphans in Australia, who were lucky enough that the plutonium from the russian satellite fell into the ocean - a "much safer spot"). Mistakes happen, and I would hate to have just one of those things accidentally not make it out of orbit on an unmanned rocket. At least a manned transport, even to the moon, has a better chance to "avert" a disaster. Not only would there be an increased risk for an accident concerning the Earth with an unmanned transport, but who is responsible for accidents between here and the sun? Vengeful aliens are not a force I would like to deal with, especially on something that could have been avoided. If the moon had not left orbit and their earlier deep space missions had been successful, maybe the waste could have been carried by a manned Eagle and then jettisoned a lot closer to the sun. Until then, I would assume the waste to be carried by unmanned vehicles to the sun. Also, as an explanation as to why some sites were "laser protected" and others were not. No matter how horrible the war may have been, there would also be some group who was not happy with the outcome. I would say there would still have been someone waiting for an opportunity to remove anything that might have been useful. Looking back on the world's history can you name one armed conflict that was resolved with all parties happy with the results? I know with the armed conflicts that the United States has been involved with, there is always one group/political party/etc. who thinks there should have been a different outcome. Just more philosphical thoughts. Jeanette
From: (Marshall Poindexter) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:36:05 -0600 These are great questions to ponder, Charles. Unfortunately, I think there was only one reason why they included things like a laser barrier in the show: IT LOOKED COOL! Seriously, I know that some people may disagree, but I think many times (BUT NOT ALWAYS!) certain plot elements in the show were subordinated to the hardware and special effects. After all, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode of a TV series was pretty unusual at that time in the 1970s and they probably wanted to get their money's worth in special effects. I would bet money that Gerry Anderson and the rest of the creative team simply sat around and said, "What neat-looking things can we create that will wow the viewers?!" but they never really thought through reasons why those things should or shouldn't be there at all. Of course, this means we can spend hours online discussing the possible explanations for S1999 creations that seem to have no purpose! I love this list! And, in a way, we can thank the poor scriptwriting and continuity folks on S1999. If it wasn't for their *lack* of effort, we wouldn't have much to discuss, ponder, debate, etc.! (This comment is meant in NO WAY to disparage the fine efforts of great writers like Johnny Byrne, who may not have had final say or control in how his scripts were presented.)
From: Orbiter ( Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:32:34 -0800 Subj: re: Lunar nuke waste Now there's a THIRD site?! Is there no end? ____________________________________ SPACE:1999 / / there is no other... / / Orbiter / (Richard Cox) / Vancouver, B.C. / Canada :) / ____________________________/
From: Zoltan Motyan ( Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 01:19:47 +0100 Subj: Nuclear Waste Thanks all for the info and opinions. Well, the domes in BoW seem to be built after Breakaway. New structures with much more safety. They don't produce magnetic storms and don't explode accidentally. But still, still, still... Alphans create and store a special device, a fuse that can be used to "fire" the waste and explode it! Strange. I can figure out only one purpose of it: to be usable by any aliens who want to destroy Alpha for some reason. :) The laser barriers: I think the most habits of man can't change in a few years. After a decade of world peace he still feel the constraint to make special safety arrangements in certain cases. On Alpha there are several safety rules and devices: the laser barriers are one of them. And sending the waste into the Sun on a low speed trajectory also can't be realized because of safety reasons unless each package has its own automatic defense system.
From: Orbiter ( Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:31:42 -0800 Another thing to think about when sending nuclear waste to the sun, is Murphy's Law. If you send nukes to the sun on a slow trip/trajectory, what would happen if the sun was missed, and you met up with (and hit by) that same waste as the Earth travelled it's regular orbital path? Murphy's Law: everything that can possibly go wrong will; anything that has gone wrong will go wrong again.
From: (Patrick Alan Mcdonald) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:18:31 EST Subj: Waste Sites 3+ Though I'm a big fan of the show, I've always felt it took a nosedive with Season Two. I don't much care for Miya at all, and Tony Vederschi is no replacement for either Paul Morrow OR Victor Bergman. I also didn't much care for those jackets they started wearing in Season Two. Yuck. :) It also seemed Season Two took a decent departure from the First Season. Can we really trust the stuff from Season Two to NOT be contradictory to Season One? The way they discussed the Waste Sites in Breakaway, they gave a STRONG impression that their were only TWO Waste Sites, #1 and #2. And Bergan pretty much discussed that Site #1 was abandoned in favor of Site #2 when Site #1 was filled. Site #2 was much newer, had more room, and a whole range of sensor arrays not present at Site #1, also showing it's age over #2. The way they were worried about Waste Sites, I SERIOUSLY doubt there was ANY such Site #3 or #4 (hinted at in Bringers Of Wonder and that other episode, SS) at the time of the Moon's Breakaway. Of course, they could have built a THIRD Site AFTER the Breakaway, but what would they store there? All the Waste in Site #2 was destroyed in the explosion in Breakaway (there's NO way it could have survived, and even if it had, the Radiation would have prevented it from being gathered), and one would assume that the fire that burned itself out in Site #1 consumed the waste there too. So, essentially, I dare say Site #3, as it's being called by the List, is simply a new set by the Second Season's new producer or whatever that represents the same old Site #1. I can't believe it'd be Site #2... Lieutenant Mac, Director, Moonbase PDOC
From: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:10:59 -0500 Subj: Re: Nuclear Waste Domes / OT: First Contact Bringers of Wonder happened before Seance Specter chronologically(as per the date given in Helena's log) as well as filming order. Yet no mention is given of the Area involved. It certainly doesn't look anything like the Area in Seance Spectre or Areas one and two from Breakaway. I did get the impression in BOW that the Area(?) monitoring facility was quite large. Also it looks vast in terms of lunar real estate as well. I'm amazed this episode actually got filmed at all, given its CEREBRAL theme. Then again, it did have rubber monsters, so I guess that appealed to Freddy. Despite the rubber monsters, poor guest acting, and silly dialogue(Anyone remember the conversations of the three musketteers while they are in the pilot ship?) Its still an enjoyable romp. Koenig has the best line of several episode's when he proudly declares "I haven't had this much fun since I burned Grandma's wig!" while barnstorming(nuclearwastedomestorming???) in an Eagle. One of the flight models I designed for Eagle One actually allows you to fly the Eagle like that. It is quite fun, especially if you try it using the external views where you see the Eagle skimming just over the tops of buildings. The monitoring station set is HUGE, given such a large building, why weren't more people on duty there? Given how much nuclear waste and associated byproducts are on the moon I'm surprised Moonbase Alpha doesn't look more like the Deimos Base from Doom. Think about it, Nuclear waste from earth, Nuclear weapons, Nuclear powered Eagles, Nuclear Moonbuggies, Nuclear powered wonder nobody has any children, they don't need birth control, they're all sterile!
From: WHEN I DANCE THEY CALL ME MACARENA ( Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:23:51 EST Subj: Area Three and Congrats: Ellen Hey, kids... First things first: CONGRATULATIONS, ELLEN!! That's great news!! I hope it's everything you hope it will be! :) Now then. I re-screened "Seance Spectre" again tonight. Yes, the name of the nuclear waste dump featured in the show IS named "Area Three", according to Tony's line: "Eagle 3 to Eagle 6... Alan, is there any sign of movement in Area Three?" But I may be wrong about the Alphans having built Area Three since the events of "Breakaway". Koenig's commentary on the "old" waste dumps at the site, in shafts 10,000 feet deep (!) capped with concrete... I think that's a little too much work for the Alphans to accomplish by themselves (unless Sanderson's surface exploration teams had to do the work... in that case, no wonder he got so P.O.'ed...). Therefore, Area Three must have been built prior to "Breakaway", but this would seem to add yet another inconsistency to the show. If Area Three WAS around, why wasn't it mentioned? And why didn't ITS waste blow up (by itself, I mean) or present weird magnetic radiation hazards to humans? Why was Area Two still open and receiving waste (Koenig even has to twist Simmonds' arm to get new waste deliveries to stop coming to Area Two in "Breakaway"...) if Area Three was open for business... aaarrrghh!!! I had other problems with "Seance Spectre" as well: 1) How Sanderson could remain invisible on the surface of the Moon with twenty or so Eagles parked in orbit, watching for him, is beyond me. 2) How Sanderson could beat Koenig and Maya's Eagle to Area Three in a moon-buggy, with only a five minute headstart, is also beyond my power to explain convincingly... 3) I know that nuclear waste is dangerous stuff, but really, why does it have to be buried 10,000 feet deep on the far side of the Moon? What kind of really high-powered nuclear waste is this?? 4) There's a continuity error during the scene when the Eagle which crashed on Tora is brought back by remote control. While Koenig and Maya are falling from side to side in the passenger section, the camera tilts but the damaged helmet on the floor stays put; doesn't roll or nuthin'... yes, I know that recording continuity errors in Season Two episodes is like shooting fish in a barrel, but in case you're keeping track... See ya later! Oh, and Mark, good luck with the 3-D renderings. I was hoping that upgrading to a 686 system would end my problems with the 3-D Studio software, but apparently not. Can't wait to see what you've done with the Space Station. :) - Boomer